nf0988: namex i'm the [0.4] third of the gang of four [0.5] er [0.8] and i'd 
like you please just [0.9] a-, [0.8] as we begin [0.5] to look at these [0.6] 
warm up questions [0.2] i should just say before we start er i'm not being 
recorded because the B-B-C has heard about me and is desperate to get their 
hands on me [0.4] i'm being recorded because this is part of a language 
teaching project that CALS is doing [0.3] to record authentic lectures for use 
[0.3] with presessional students before they start on courses at the university 
[0.4] and also to provide a database [0.3] of authentic language [0.2] and i 
think those are two things that show the directions in which modern language 
teaching is going [0.4] that people are now no longer interested in native 
speaker intuitions [0.2] about what goes on [0.3] er in the real d-, language 
context we're now actually interested in what people do [0.3] and we want to 
give our learners access to what people actually do [0.3] not what linguists 
think they do [0.2] or native speakers intuit they do [0.3] and i think it's a 
very good example 
of er [0.3] practice [0.3] in our field [0.2] okay warm up questions i'm going 
to give you a couple of minutes just to think about [0.4] how were you taught 
foreign languages at school [0.3] you don't have to use any of the [0.4] er 
descriptions of methodology that were provided by namex [0.2] in session one [0.
2] just think about how you were taught foreign languages at school [0.3] what 
kind of activities [0.4] did you do in class [1.0] a very important question 
who did most of the talking [0.9] and what was the attitude to errors i'm going 
to give you five minutes to just sort of note down [0.3] your answers to those 
questions please don't spend the time copying the questions down i'd rather you 
er [0.4] you answer them 
nf0988: okay if you've just come in we're looking at these questions noting 
down couple of points [1.0] about your own experiences learning languages being 
taught [0.6] languages 
nf0988: do talk to your partner if you've had enough time to think of it on 
your own [1.4] your neighbour [11.0] are you 
having problem identifying a language 
sf0989: no no 
nf0988: or are you just thinking generically 
sf0989: 
nf0988: [laughter] that's [laughter] that's meaningful [17.7] 
nf0988: where are you from you're from Germany aren't you and you're from 
Greece okay so maybe we'll have different [0.5] experiences there come on share 
your experiences [0.3] 
nf0988: you're both British aren't you 
sm0990: yes 
sf0991: yes 
nf0988: yes okay so let's see what the British er [0.3] perspective on this is 
[12.8] 
nf0988: are you both British 
sf0992: no [0.4] 
nf0988: no where are you from 
sf0992: 
nf0988: right you're British oh you're Australian oh okay right okay so you did 
[0.4] Bahasa Indonesian did you or did you do French 
sf0992: 
nf0988: right 
sf0992: 
nf0988: yeah [0.5] right okay [0.3] okay so [0.9] similar or different [0.3] 
your experiences of [0.3] as learning languages [0.4] have you er has it come 
back 
sf0993: [laughter] [38.4] 
nf0988: 
okay just as er [0.9] some of you have started speaking i'm going to stop you 
[0.8] that's a well known communicative device [laugh] [0.6] er [0.7] let's see 
what we've got okay anybody like to kick off we had one comment which is i 
can't remember [0.4] which i think is er perhaps symptomatic of a lot of modern 
language teaching around the world [0.5] how would anybody like to kick off how 
were you taught [0.9] let's have somebody from Germany [0.4] i know we've some 
Germans here how were you taught [0.6] foreign languages at school [2.3] you're 
not representative of the whole country it's all right you can just talk for 
yourself [1.1] [laughter] how were you taught [2.1] 
sf0995: well personally er a set of grammar rules was introduced er exercises 
to do [1.0] 
nf0988: okay 
sf0995: this attitude of like test against [0.3] 
nf0988: right grammar rules and exercises we have [0.3] a Greek representative 
[0.2] i'm sorry i know you so it's unfortunate 
sf0996: er [0.7] yes [laughter] 
nf0988: okay [0.3] how were you taught 
sf0996: er [0.4] i [0.2] wanted to say about the [0.3] er the teachers using 
the L-one [0.2] language [0.9] 
nf0988: all the time 
sf0996: [0.5] all the time and in the beginning [0.3] but then as [0.3] you get 
a lot more advanced we're using [0.4] er mostly the L-two [0.5] 
nf0988: ah okay that's the one of the points that namex made that sometimes 
actually when we were looking at the Bahasa Indonesia class it's easier to use 
the target language at the beginning stages [0.3] but later [1.6] to [0.4] L-
one explanation [0.6] was it explanation or discussion [0.7] 
sf0996: er [0.5] explanation 
nf0988: er [0.6] er [2.5] okay 
sm0997: okay [0.6] 
nf0988: anybody actu-, can we have a British person who'd like to er [0.2] 
admit to being taught foreign languages [1.8] 
sf0998: the other way round 'cause 
nf0988: mm 
sf0998: er G-C-S-E learn this er [0.3] this is for German teaching [0.4] 
nf0988: right 
sf0998: 
nf0988: right so for some people it was the other way round vice versa [0.5] 
okay [1.2] anybody 
e-, yeah [0.4] 
sf0999: yeah i learned [0.3] French but it was actually when i moved to France 
in a British school [0.2] 
nf0988: mm 
sf0999: so it's a little bit different and i remember the first classes it was 
very much it was all in the er target language [0.4] and things like nursery 
rhymes stories [0.5] of that culture [0.7] so it was very much almost immersion 
[0.2] and then later on the textbooks and [0.5] deal with all the grammar and 
stuff like that [1.1] 
nf0988: okay [0.2] so a different approach there yeah [0.7] 
sf1000: i did 
nf0988: Australia comes to Britain yes [0.8] 
sf1000: i did two series of Latin [1.1] and er [0.2] that was [0.7] entirely [0.
3] grammar translation point of view because basically [0.5] 
nf0988: right yes there's a very good reason for that of course [0.7] it's very 
difficult to find Romans [0.3] [laughter] to talk to in Latin but okay so 
grammar translation [0.3] perhaps if we move on [0.2] we'll [0.5] unpack that a 
little bit more [0.2] because the next question actually i think is quite 
indicative of of the methodology [0.2] what kind of activities [0.3] did you do 
in 
class [0.8] what kind of activities one of our Chinese colleagues what kind of 
activities did you do in class when you were learning English [1.8] 
sf1001: er [0.2] when er i learned English about twenty-six years ago 
[laughter] 
nf0988: right 
sf1001: [0.4] can't remember that [0.5] er kinds of activities er and group 
work [1.7] and pair work [0.8] er pair work i mean pairs [0.9] and er picture 
talking [0.9] 
nf0988: okay [1.4] picture [0.2] 
sf1001: talking [0.6] 
nf0988: talking 
sf1001: 
nf0988: right okay so describing [0.5] 
sf1001: and the role plays [0.7] 
nf0988: role play [1.9] okay and of course we've got the grammar exercises [0.
2] lurking up the top anybody want to add anything to that any other kinds of 
activities yes [0.3] 
sf1002: we did a lot of singing [0.3] 
sf1003: yes [1.0] 
nf0988: right [2.2] okay yes the er [0.9] Beatles approach to language learning 
where would we be without the Beatles yes [1.0] 
sf1004: er er reading comprehensions er listening [1.5] 
nf0988: reading comprehension [0.2] listening [0.4] activities [0.3] yeah [0.9] 
who did most of the talking [1.0] 
sf1005: student 
sf1006: teacher
sf1007: teacher 
nf0988: okay put your hand up if you feel the teacher [0.2] did most of the 
talking [0.7] 
sf1008: depends on the level [0.4] 
nf0988: yes okay beginners' level [0.8] 
sf1008: [0.3] 
nf0988: intermediate level [0.9] 
sf1008: [0.3] 
nf0988: advanced level [0.3] 
sf1008: [0.8] 
nf0988: is that because nobody got to advanced level or it because [laughter] 
[0.3] okay so the teacher but it does [0.2] depends on level [1.5] so more [1.
2] at [0.7] lower [0.6] levels [1.0] was there anybody who was taught in a 
class where the students did most of the talking [3.6] right [0.2] okay [0.2] 
and what was the attitude to errors [0.8] what was the attitude to errors were 
they seen as [0.3] helpful [2.0] or problematic [2.2] 
sf1008: again it depended on the level at G-C-S-E level it was basically 
pronunciation errors were [0.4] er corrected [0.5] but ba-, and basic grammar 
[0.3] but [0.3] at A-level [0.2] the whole lot was corrected [0.6] 
nf0988: okay so sometimes something to be 
corrected [0.6] and again the amount depended on the level anybody else with a 
different approach to errors in their educational background [3.7] was every 
error corrected or just some [0.7] 
sf1009: just the ones that kept cro-, cropping up [0.3] that were really 
nf0988: okay [0.2] so common [1.0] errors [0.8] corrected [0.3] did anybody 
experience all errors corrected [1.6] two [1.0] okay common errors corrected [0.
2] down to all [0.6] errors corrected [1.1] so we've got a [0.4] a cline [0.8] 
variety [1.5] okay [0.2] i think what we've got here is actually quite a good 
picture [0.2] of [0.8] how people in the past and perhaps still today are being 
taught modern la-, modern foreign languages [0.2] think Latin is a little bit 
different but still [1.6] attitude to the target language which namex has 
talked about [0.2] attitude to [0.3] er [0.3] grammar [0.2] still there very 
much for most people [0.2] the kinds of activities that people are doing in the 
language classroom [2.4] grammar exercises but yes lots more talking [0.5] and 
authentic [0.4] 
activities presumably these were genuine authentic songs [0.5] but the talking 
[0.2] very often the teacher doing too much of it [0.7] or at least a lot of it 
you can tell my prejudice there [0.3] but [0.2] doing a lot of the talking 
especially at the lower levels [1.2] and the attitude to error [0.5] ranging 
hugely from [0.2] common err-, did anybody learn in an environment where errors 
were not corrected at all [2.5] okay so everybody experienced some errors 
corrected [0.2] ranging from common errors [0.2] to all errors corrected [1.2] 
this week and next week we're going to look [0.3] with me at language learning 
and how it's moved on how we've got from [1.2] books like this [0.4] in 
nineteen- [0.3] fifty-nine [0.4] i-, please don't copy it down [0.6] er [0.2] 
An Intermediate Course [0.2] for Adult Learners of English [0.2] which [0.2] 
would probably be familiar to the people who [0.2] had a more grammatical [0.2] 
approach to language [0.5] teaching in their lives [0.2] above below 
preposition above is contrasted with below just as over is contrasted with 
under [0.2] in some cases over may be used in place of above 
and under may be used in place of below [0.5] and the book looks like that [3.
1] and if you gave that to a modern language learner today [0.2] they'd be out 
of your classroom like a shot [0.4] but [0.3] that was what worked then [1.1] 
moving on from that [0.8] to [1.5] little book like this [0.3] nineteen-seventy-
two [1.0] which had [1.0] i'll read you out the conte-, some of the contents 
here [1.4] cont-, it's called situational dialogues [0.4] and the topics were 
things like transport [0.2] communication [0.3] health [0.5] greetings [0.5] in 
town [0.5] and in town you were at a hotel finding a room making an appointment 
finding a job [2.9] at the post office here's a little extract [1.9] giving you 
gripping details about what you can buy at post offices [0.2] and giving you [0.
2] little dialogues to practise and drill [0.2] what's the postage on these 
letters to Thailand please i'll have to check [0.7] do you need anything else 
yes a three P stamp these were the d-, the good old days [laughter] [0.2] 
that'll be eight [0.4] eighty-five P in all very sweet [0.5] er [0.4] so and 
drills 
labelled as such so still [0.5] behaviourist [0.6] practice there [0.7] very 
concrete situations very concrete language [0.6] so we've gone [0.2] from that 
to that pictures are creeping in [2.2] rather [0.8] simple [0.2] pictures but 
they are there [0.4] there's print is less dense [0.5] it's more attractive [1.
7] only a bit [1.4] moving on to things like this [0.3] nineteen-seventy-seven 
[0.3] Functions [0.2] of English [2.8] and here are the chapter headings [0.9] 
the most important one first [0.3] talking about yourself [0.5] starting a 
conversation making a date [1.2] [laughter] asking for information question 
techniques answering techniques getting further information getting people to 
do things [0.7] requesting attracting attention et cetera [0.2] so [1.7] still 
very dense [0.2] print [0.6] the odd [0.2] the very odd picture [0.6] er and [0.
5] focusing on doing things with language previously we were looking at the 
situations in which language was used [0.3] they're looking at doing things 
with language [3.6] and quite dense text [0.2] this is from that book [3.8] but 
real [0.2] language [0.3] coming 
out here [1.2] telling you what you're supposed to know to tell a story 
narrative technique [1.2] an illustrative conversation [1.0] well er it really 
happened er i was driving along in a very er er car old banger er er and on it 
goes [0.9] so [0.7] looking more like the way we talk [0.2] but still [0.8] 
perhaps somewhat overwhelming [1.8] to today [0.9] where we have books like 
this [3.5] which i think you will agree [0.5] look very different [1.5] lots of 
colour [1.1] different foci [0.5] in the contents of the book talking about 
skills [0.7] and tasks [0.4] so we've got a range of materials here [0.2] but 
some of the things looking perhaps [0.3] a bit similar [0.6] talking about your 
past [2.8] vocabulary is still there [0.3] the skills of reading and speaking 
[1.1] are still there [2.3] so how did we get [0.2] from [1.5] this [0.5] to 
this [0.2] and that's the focus of the next [0.2] two sessions [0.6] on the 
handout you've got [1.5] to try and sort of frame [1.3] this whole course i've 
given you [0.8] a diagram from Stern [1.5] which i think is actually quite 
useful [0.2] when we're trying to see [0.2] how theory relates to 
practice [0.3] we-, how does it all fit together [0.5] here you have [0.7] what 
he calls a conceptual framework for second language teaching theories [0.3] and 
this is the level at which namex [0.4] was was looking with you the level [0.3] 
of linguistics what we know from soci-, psycholinguistics [0.8] the history of 
language teaching namex [0.3] touched on [1.1] moving up now [0.5] and also [1.
0] namex's sessions to think about what educational [0.2] linguistics [0.2] 
tell us [0.3] from the theory and research background about learning [0.2] and 
language [0.7] and teaching [0.2] and i hope that [0.6] from namex's very 
informative sessions you did get the picture that we don't know [0.5] all the 
answers we're very far from knowing all the answers about how people [0.3] l-, 
a-, about language [0.3] or how people learn language [0.3] and certainly 
teaching [0.4] is [0.4] er a marriage of theory and practice [0.4] that very 
often [0.2] is influenced by the knowledge of the teacher [0.4] the needs and 
the attitude of the learners [0.2] and the materials available at the time [0.
4] so i don't think we've cracked it i think 
modern language teaching is still not [0.4] perfect we haven't got all the 
answers [0.4] er but i do know that English language teaching [0.2] seems to be 
at the head of the field it seems to be the area where most money and resources 
are going so if it isn't in English language teaching it's probably not in 
other [0.2] modern language teaching and i think that's why it's important [0.
3] to look at what's going on in English language teaching today [1.4] the 
third level having moved from foundations to interlevel up to practice is 
methodology content and objectives [0.2] strategies resources [0.2] evaluation 
of outcomes and this is really [0.3] the area [0.2] i'm going to be focusing on 
[0.2] here [0.2] and here [4.9] 
okay [0.2] namex in h-, second session [0.4] asked the question [0.2] what is 
education for [0.9] why have education what's it for [0.7] i'm not going to 
embarrass you by seeing if you can remember the answers that he gave [0.6] but 
[0.8] two important distinctions and they're on the handout [0.3] are [1.1] 
commodity [0.3] versus public good [1.9] thinking about how [0.2] language 
teaching fits in to the whole overall picture because i don't think we can 
divorce language teaching [0.2] from [0.7] education as a whole so we need to 
think about the values and beliefs the aims and standards [0.3] the methods and 
techniques [0.2] which are whole part of the wider educational experience the 
whole [0.2] curriculum [0.4] that learners experience [0.3] foreign language 
teaching is not an isolated element [1.6] it's part of [0.2] the educational 
tradition in the countries where it's 
taught so what is [0.2] education for [0.6] at a very basic level [0.2] it can 
be [0.2] a commodity [1.3] a commodity is where the learner [1.4] is a client 
[0.5] a customer [1.0] who pays a lot of money very often or whose company [0.
9] or sponsor pays a lot of money [0.3] to come and study with you [0.4] and 
this client or customer [10.4] or customer [0.4] has [0.3] needs [1.6] and [1.
8] wants [1.5] but particularly [1.7] wants [2.4] and if you don't satisfy 
those wants [0.2] what will the customer do [0.7] 
sf1010: go elsewhere 
nf0988: go elsewhere [0.3] they'll leave your language school [0.2] they'll 
drop out of your programme [0.2] they'll take their money [0.2] their time [0.
3] elsewhere [0.9] so that's [0.2] one view [2.6] the other view of course [1.
8] is [0.2] of education [0.3] as public good [1.0] and in a system where 
education is viewed as a public good [1.2] we don't talk about clients and 
customers [0.7] who do we talk about [0.3] 
sf1011: students 
nf0988: students yes [1.3] 
we talk about students [0.3] and [0.9] learners [0.2] or [0.4] pupils if you 
like [0.7] at high school [0.5] level [0.5] and they [0.8] very often are not 
perceived to have wants [0.2] it's much more likely they're perceived to have 
[0.8] 
ss: needs 
nf0988: needs and the role of education is to [0.6] provide those needs to 
satisfy [0.3] those needs [0.3] and who [2.5] here who defines the wants of 
your client [2.3] who defines those wants you the teacher [0.5] 
sf1012: no [0.4] 
nf0988: no [0.5] okay [0.3] that is defined by [2.4] the client [1.5] which 
could be [0.6] the learner [1.1] or it could be [3.5] 
sf1013: sponsor 
nf0988: their sponsor [1.3] so in the commercial world of language teaching [0.
2] it could be the boss [0.2] who has said go and teach [0.4] my employees 
English [0.2] in order to do the following things this is what i want you to do 
[2.3] in the world of public good [0.8] who defines [0.2] the students' [0.2] 
needs [2.4] 
sm1014: [0.4] 
nf0988: okay yes [0.2] it can be [0.3] the government [2.4] in a state 
education system with a [0.3] national curriculum [0.3] 
such as we now have here [0.3] who else [0.5] can define them [1.0] 
sm1015: parents [0.7] 
nf0988: mm think you'd be lucky but they might [0.3] i'm going to put parents 
in a very small [1.7] letters i think 'cause i'm not sure about parents [0.2] 
ss: [0.4] 
nf0988: mm 
sf1016: educationalists 
nf0988: maybe it's the world is changing i suppose [0.3] 
sf1017: i think 
nf0988: educationalists yes [3.8] educationalists people in [0.7] universities 
[1.1] linguistics departments schools of education [0.2] yes [0.6] 
sf1017: people with [0.2] 
nf0988: right yes it could be [0.3] er [2.2] it could be administrators [1.5] 
within [1.1] a hierarchy [4.6] experts basically [1.3] of one kind [1.1] or 
another [2.3] and that [2.3] dichotomy i think is quite important [0.2] in 
showing [0.5] the differences between [1.3] and the driving forces that have 
influenced English language teaching [0.4] because increasingly [2.4] 
what sector [0.4] is this does this view prevail [0.5] what sector [0.7] we're 
thinking about private and state [1.7] what sector is influenced by this view 
sm1018: private 
nf0988: this is the private sector 
sf1019: oh [1.2] 
nf0988: this is [0.3] the private language schools the private teachers [1.0] 
the business world [0.3] and [0.2] here [2.1] who's probably going to be 
arguing for language teaching as a public good [1.9] 
sf1020: 
nf0988: it's the state sector [0.9] this is the state sector [0.8] which views 
students [0.5] as learners with needs [0.3] that can be defined by experts [1.
4] rather than as clients with wants [0.5] which [0.4] will be defined by them 
[0.5] or their bosses and the people who've sent them to you [4.5] that whole 
view of education permeates everything it's course it's not just language 
teaching [0.4] but we're interested here in language teaching [0.4] because 
language teaching is part of that tradition it's not a neutral activity [0.3] 
the attitudes towards education the attitudes [0.3] towards language influence 
very much what 
goes on in the classroom and you cannot divorce language teaching [0.2] from 
the social view of education [0.2] and where [0.2] it fits in [1.1] namex also 
talked about different education [0.2] tradi-, traditions [1.1] it's a while 
ago [0.7] he talked about three [1.0] broad [0.7] perspectives you don't have 
this on you handout but you do have [0.4] er a detailed breakdown of it which 
we're going to look at in a moment [1.6] three very broad perspectives [0.2] 
from Littlewood [2.5] of the purposes of education [0.3] one [0.8] is [1.1] 
very traditional one [0.9] to pass on value [0.4] knowledge [0.3] and culture 
[0.8] so that you see education as passing from the [0.5] previous generation 
[0.2] down to the next generation [1.1] the knowledge [0.8] they will need [2.
6] another purpose of education is to prepare learners as members of society [1.
4] so you have needs which you feel your society ne-, [0.4] er must fulfil [0.
2] and you [0.3] view education as a vehicle for doing this [0.5] and that will 
influence [0.2] how language is taught [0.3] we'll see how in a moment [1.3] 
and the third view [0.4] which is much more humanistic [0.5] that was the word 
namex used a humanistic view of education [0.2] is where you see learners as 
individual selves who must be [0.2] developed [0.3] and the process of 
education as being [0.2] developing [0.8] the self [0.4] bringing out the 
individual's best [1.1] characteristics features allowing them to learn and to 
fulfil their potential [0.5] whereas here [0.2] we're more interested in 
producing [0.2] useful members of society [0.2] and here [1.5] put extremely 
we're interested in in [0.3] passing down [0.5] tablets of stone [0.2] from one 
generation to the next [0.2] so three very very different [0.3] views of 
education [2.4] which will influence [1.0] how we see [0.8] language learning 
[0.3] and that's [0.5] the next page on your handout if you could have a look 
at the next [0.4] diagram [2.8] i've got it on the he-, overhead transparency 
but you've also got in under two-point-two [0.2] different education traditions 
so fitting into this [2.6] analysis [3.2] i've given them slightly different 
labels from namex [1.2] because these are the ones [0.4] that [0.5] Littlewood 
uses [2.4] 
namex talked about an academic tradition [0.5] he also talked about [0.9] 
social reformist tradition and he talked about a humanist tradition but they 
map onto these three [1.5] okay looking at each of these in turn [1.0] and i 
hope as i'm talking about these you're thinking okay what's the tradition i 
come from [0.5] what is my [0.5] educational tradition [0.2] is it [0.2] 
changing [1.3] thinking first of all about classical humanism [0.3] remember 
the purpose here [0.2] is to pass on [0.3] knowledge from one generation to the 
next [0.4] and here [2.3] the main purpose of education is to transmit volu-, 
value knowledge and culture [0.2] to an elite section of the next generation i 
think that point about elitism is quite important [0.2] grammar schools in 
Britain [0.2] for example [1.0] selective education in many parts of the world 
[0.5] the differences between gymnasium [0.5] and technical [0.2] schools [0.2] 
for example [0.7] reconstructionism [0.6] to bring about desired [0.2] social 
change [0.9] and one c-, [0.2] [cough] examples of this at the moment might be 
the Eastern European countries [0.3] that are 
changing radically and changing their education systems [0.2] from this [0.3] 
to this [0.4] in order to promote development [0.8] and progressivism [0.7] 
seen perhaps as the sort of trendy lefty [0.5] view of education [0.3] the er 
[1.1] self-development [0.2] finding out about yourself self-fulfilment 
education being there [0.5] to allow you to be the best you can be [0.2] in 
British government parlance [0.3] at the moment [1.1] so those three different 
traditions [0.2] very different [0.7] and each with a slightly different main 
focus [1.5] if we look first of all at classical humanism [0.6] the main focus 
there was to develop [0.3] general intellectual abilities and within that 
context grammar translation fitted very well [0.4] it prepared you [0.7] to 
think [0.3] it gave you an intellectual discipline [0.2] intellectual training 
[0.7] however [1.2] if you actually want someone to contribute [1.2] to life as 
a member of society [0.2] you also need people who can communicate [0.5] and [0.
4] do [0.2] things [0.3] in language [1.3] as well as in mathematics history 
whatever [0.7] and progressivism is to develop the individual person and 
there you might see [0.2] from a language point of view more interest [0.2] in 
helping learners learn about themselves [0.2] how they learn best [0.4] how do 
i learn a foreign language best what's the best way for me to do it [0.2] as an 
individual [1.5] very different attitudes to content [0.6] classical humanism 
[0.2] the language is there [0.2] as a valued subject content [2.5] under 
reconstructionism preparing you for the world of work and society [0.6] it's a 
very utilitarian view [0.2] you want knowledge and skills that are useful for 
social life [1.6] and that's where [0.3] people worry about government 
interference because the government will have perhaps a different view of 
what's useful [0.4] er for social life and [0.2] the individual [1.5] and 
certainly may not think it's important to [0.3] promote experiences [0.2] that 
will stimulate growth [0.2] intellectual growth personal growth [0.8] so how do 
all of these fit in [0.3] with language teaching and the goals of language 
teaching [1.1] under a classical humanist approach [0.3] yes you need knowledge 
of diff-, of of a different [0.2] 
language system [2.0] but you also need a better understanding of [0.2] your 
own language [3.0] and you need to be able to talk about language you need a 
metalanguage to talk about language linguistic awareness [2.2] it's also useful 
[0.2] to have [0.3] knowledge and understanding of a different culture [0.4] 
and civilization [1.9] and all of these will promote [0.2] general [0.4] 
intellectual skills [1.7] and if you look at A-level syllabuses in this country 
if you look at the baccalaureate in France [0.3] if you look at [0.3] er [0.2] 
most countries high school [0.2] leaving [0.2] qualifications [0.6] that is 
very often [0.2] the view of of language that is promoted it's an intellectual 
development stage [0.3] so that a native speaker could fail [0.4] the exam [1.
1] a native speaker of English could easily fail the French baccalaureate in 
English in my opinion [0.3] because you're having to display intellectual 
capacities [0.3] and levels of learning and thinking [0.2] that go beyond being 
able to speak the language [0.9] in fact i think i might fail the French [0.6] 
baccalaureate in 
English [1.0] er okay so reconstructionism [1.3] preparing you for life 
preparing you for society [0.2] so there [0.2] language is seen as a useful 
skill for many kinds of work [1.2] wonderful for travel [2.0] can get you out 
travelling [1.8] better [0.4] and wider possibilities for communication with 
others within [1.5] the world of travel but also the world of work of business 
commerce [2.6] and it will give you hopefully a better understanding [0.3] of 
other members of society [1.0] minority groups within your own society [2.5] 
and also native speakers of the target language [0.2] living within your own 
community [2.0] so much more utilitarian and less intellectual view [0.6] 
progressivism [0.9] developing the self the humanistic approach has a much less 
restricted perspective of the world [0.3] anything [0.2] that helps you develop 
and grow [0.3] is useful [1.8] is much more interested in [0.2] other ways of 
expressing [0.2] your own self [0.6] beyond the purely utilitarian [0.2] 
pragmatic [1.4] is interested in developing possibilities for future 
learning [0.3] lifelong learning so trying to establish the foundations [0.2] 
for future [0.2] language learning [0.3] there are language programmes called 
language readiness supervisors which actually don't teach language at all [0.3] 
but get learners [0.2] to think about [0.2] language what's involved in 
language [0.2] preparing them to go on [0.2] and learn other languages [1.6] 
and a richer interpersonal network for one's own existence so you're learning 
language there as part of your own [0.3] personal development [1.5] so three 
very different traditions i'm going to embarrass you now [0.5] by asking you if 
you'd like to commit yourself [0.7] and your education system to one of these 
traditions is there anybody here [0.3] who feels they grew up [0.3] in this [0.
4] tradition the classical [0.4] humanism [0.2] tradition i certainly did i 
went to an English grammar school [0.3] and that's what i had [0.4] okay [0.6] 
right [0.9] anybody [0.2] who [0.3] er has grown up in a sort of 
reconstructionist education system preparing people for society [0.5] for the 
world of work [0.4] much more [0.2] utilitarian view [2.8] okay [0.7] 
this one progressivism [0.2] development of the self [0.2] personality [0.6] 
being the best you can be [2.3] one poor soul [0.5] right okay [0.3] and 
there's a few people who presumably [0.3] are not quite sure and who think well 
okay i had a blend of that [1.1] sometimes we were doing this [0.2] sometimes 
we were doing this [0.2] but often i was also encouraged to do this i think 
many education systems today [0.2] are a blend [0.2] of these different [0.2] 
types [0.2] it's not [1.5] one or the other [7.0] Littlewood went on having [0.
3] summarized those systems in that way to look at how [1.2] those three 
approaches influence [0.4] the language curriculum and that's the next [1.6] 
thing on your handout [5.6] the classical humanist approach might fit most 
comfortably with a structural [0.3] view of language [2.4] a more functional 
view of language [0.2] fits in here [0.3] how we use language [1.0] structural 
how does language operate how does it hang together [0.5] what are the bits and 
pieces [0.2] that make up the language as an intellectual discipline as well as 
a [0.2] a 
language learning discipline [0.3] here [0.2] we're interested in [0.2] the 
functions of language [0.6] how is language used to do business to buy things 
to make complaints [0.4] to request information [1.2] and here [0.2] very much 
more looking at process [0.4] how [0.4] how do people learn [0.5] so here [0.3] 
are concerned with what [0.3] what is language [0.5] and here [0.3] how [0.4] 
how do people learn language [0.9] and the next [0.2] table [0.4] two-point-
three [2.3] looks at that in some detail again based on on Littlewood [2.7] in 
a classical humanist approach [0.4] and a structural approach [0.3] what you 
want your learners to do is to master the grammar and the vocabulary of the 
language [0.9] those are your [0.4] clear [1.3] aims [1.1] the syllabus is 
there to select and sequence those structures and vocabulary [0.2] using such 
criteria as complexity how difficult is it [0.2] is the simple past more 
difficult than the simple present [0.3] what about progressive [0.2] where does 
that fit in importance [0.3] how important [0.2] is it [0.2] to be able to use 
the passive voice [0.3] and teachability [0.4] how easy is it to teach the 
present perfect [0.2] as 
opposed to the [0.4] past simple [0.5] so [0.8] criteria complexity importance 
teachability [0.9] what's missing there [0.2] anything missing [0.8] if you're 
looking at language to see how [0.2] complex it is [0.2] how important it is [0.
9] how teachable it is anything that strikes you as missing [0.6] 
sf1021: the students' needs 
sf1022: students' [0.2] needs [0.2] 
nf0988: the students' needs yes do they actually need to know all this stuff [0.
2] 
sf1023: [0.3] 
nf0988: or want to interests there's nothing there about interest [3.4] 
so students' needs and interests and wants perhaps being somewhat neglected 
there [0.3] unless you believe which many people following those syllabuses do 
[0.3] that they n-, [0.2] they have to have this foundation [0.7] in order to 
move on [3.2] okay a functional [1.0] syllabus [1.6] its goal is to equip 
learners to fulfil their communicative needs [0.4] their communicative needs [0.
4] in an appropriate range of situations we saw some of the situations earlier 
[1.0] at the bank at the post office at the airport communicative needs asking 
for information [0.2] giving information [1.7] requesting advice those kinds of 
things so the syllabus selects [0.4] and sequences functions or skills 
according to usefulness [0.4] which didn't come in here i think that was the 
point [0.2] being made at the back there usefulness complexity of the language 
they require [0.5] you've still got to think about complexity of language if 
it's too complex [0.9] it doesn't matter how useful it is [0.3] learners will 
not 
remember it [2.2] and finally process [0.5] here [0.8] the goal is to create 
contexts which will stimulate [0.6] the potential for natural language growth 
[0.2] to help learners to develop naturally [0.5] as language learners [0.2] 
the syllabus provides a sequence of contexts no longer sequence of language [0.
2] or sequence of functions but contexts [1.3] for learning [0.8] learning now 
not learners so much but focusing on learning and how people learn and 
providing contexts for learning [0.9] which are roughly graded [0.8] it's got 
to be rough because i don't know how you do it systematically it's very 
difficult to grade context very [0.4] relatively easy to grade structures [0.7] 
quite difficult to grade functions almost impossible to grade contexts [1.7] to 
the demands they make on communication skills rather than by strictly [0.2] 
linguistic criteria [0.3] so we've got a move [1.5] from language [0.5] to 
process [1.0] language focus [0.9] the what [0.5] of linguistics [0.4] to [0.5] 
the how of linguistics and a shift in attention from what linguists can tell us 
[0.8] to 
what [0.4] sociolinguists can tell us and educationalists can tell us [0.8] so 
influences coming in from other fields [0.5] namex talked about the broadening 
[0.2] of our discipline [0.6] beyond just pure linguistics [0.3] into 
sociolinguistics psycholinguistics [0.2] here we're broadening it into 
education [0.2] as well [1.9] any questions about that [0.5] or comments [4.6] 
three very different approaches three very different views [0.2] of what's 
going on in education [0.3] and how people learn [3.7] and of course you can 
have [0.3] a shift [0.8] from one to the other as we saw from the descriptions 
that people gave earlier [0.4] very often [0.8] the shift will be according to 
level [1.4] some people may find [0.5] i think somebody described [1.5] 
beginning [0.2] levels focusing here [0.3] on structures and more intermediate 
levels moving on into functions and perhaps at more advanced levels [0.3] 
thinking about process [0.3] but there will be other people who may have gone 
the other way [0.5] and have decided that [0.9] process is the important [0.4] 
starting point [0.3] what you do with language 
comes next and you leave linguistic analysis to an advanced stage [0.2] there's 
no [0.4] one way of doing it but this movement blending [0.6] of [0.6] 
approaches is very [0.5] common [0.4] and probably to be encouraged because we 
don't yet know exactly which one [0.3] works best [1.9] and even if we did it 
may vary from culture to culture from learner to learner [4.2] when you have 
this movement [2.7] from here [2.9] coming back to who's doing most of the 
talking who's doing most of the talking in this classroom [0.9] 
ss: teacher 
nf0988: the teacher who's doing most of the talking in this classroom [0.5] 
sf1024: students 
nf0988: students [0.3] but teachers too [0.2] and here [1.0] 
ss: students 
nf0988: students and teachers together [0.3] so there is a shift [0.6] attitude 
to error [0.2] what's the attitude to error here [2.9] 
sf1025: has to be corrected [laugh] 
nf0988: it's got to be corrected got to be stamped out [0.8] here [1.8] you 
want to buy an aeroplane ticket does it matter if you say [0.5] can i has a 
ticket [0.4] or can i have a ticket [3.4] you'll still get the 
ticket i suspect okay [0.2] so that the attitude to error here [0.6] more 
relaxed [0.9] and over here [1.1] attitude to error what do you think [3.8] 
natural language growth what do we know about natural language growth what do 
children do [0.7] 
sf1025: make errors [0.2] 
nf0988: they make errors [0.3] so errors seen as part of the process [1.5] not 
necessarily something to be glorified and celebrated [0.2] but part of the 
process not something that needs to be [0.4] to be stamped out [3.6] and if we 
have this [0.4] mixture of approaches this variable [0.2] focus approach [4.0] 
you end up [3.3] with a sort of progression from [0.4] control [0.2] this is 
not on your handout [0.3] control [1.6] with focus on form [0.2] manipulation 
of language drills [0.5] that useful legacy from the behaviourist approach [0.
3] teacher in control [0.5] teacher [0.4] controlling the language [0.2] and 
convergent outcomes all the students in the class [0.2] saying the same thing 
[0.4] writing the same thing [0.4] at the end [0.2] hopefully [1.0] so teacher 
controlling very tightly [0.2] what goes on [1.0] put these sentences into the 
past tense [0.6] 
i go to town you want everyone to write i [0.6] went to town [0.2] convergent 
[0.4] everybody coming up with the same utterance [0.7] which is correct [1.7] 
and as we move perhaps [0.8] in time perhaps [2.9] with level of learner [0.6] 
you can move from greater degree of control [0.2] down to here where you have 
sort of absolute freedom [2.3] with the teacher slowly relinquishing control 
helping [0.2] but not controlling [0.3] to very [0.7] divergent outcomes [0.4] 
a role a task [1.5] with the teacher as a monitor [1.8] but the learner 
controlling what is said [0.6] get into groups and talk about your language 
learning experience [1.5] is a language activity [0.8] i have no idea what you 
said to each other [0.3] i couldn't control it [0.3] because you are bringing 
[0.9] your own [0.3] focus on communication [0.5] your own [0.3] arguments and 
ideas the learner's in control in the driving seat [0.2] the teacher is there 
as a monitor [1.7] and that context the teacher [3.4] is encouraging developing 
promoting divergent outcomes [6.0] i think most language teachers would argue 
today [0.2] that what we need [0.3] is [0.3] a 
judicious mixture of the two [0.2] that there are occasions when you have to do 
this [0.8] in order to allow the learner [0.2] to focus on accuracy [0.3] 
because [0.3] they can't [0.4] do this and this all the time that there are 
times when you need [0.3] to look at the language [0.9] particularly if it's 
very different from your mother tongue [0.2] and where the teacher will control 
and manipulate drilling [0.3] for example [1.0] but there will be other 
occasions [0.2] where the student the learner [0.2] will be free to experiment 
and explore the language and make their own mistakes [4.0] what's happening as 
we move down here of course to the teacher [0.4] is [1.2] the teacher is 
actually losing control [0.5] the teacher is stopping being a teacher and i 
think when we think about language teaching we need to think about the role of 
the teacher [0.3] here the teacher is boss [0.3] the teacher is what doing what 
i'm doing now [0.4] standing at the front [1.1] controlling [0.3] as you move 
down here the teacher's role changes here [0.3] you are [1.0] arbiter of the 
language you are [0.2] linguistic model [0.3] 
what are you down here [1.1] when you've got students doing communicative 
activities discussing things [0.7] what's your role [0.3] 
sf1026: facilitator 
nf0988: you're a facilitator [0.6] yes [0.9] well done [0.6] you've read the 
book [0.2] you're a facilitator what else [3.6] who sets up the activity [0.2] 
and gets everybody doing it [0.4] 
sf1027: coordinator [0.4] 
nf0988: sorry [0.5] 
sf1027: coordinator 
nf0988: you're a coordinator [0.4] you're a facilitator [0.2] you're a 
coordinator [2.7] think of the business world [1.3] you're a 
sf1028: s-, [0.4] supervisor 
nf0988: you're a supervisor [0.4] yes you're a supervisor popping round making 
sure people are doing it right needi-, if they need help checking [0.5] you're 
also a manager [0.7] you're managing the classroom managing activities [7.0] 
however most teachers [1.3] even within a communicative context [0.2] will find 
themselves in the situation of actually having a syllabus [0.6] that they have 
to follow [1.6] and [1.0] that's what i'd like to move on [0.2] to look at now 
before we have a break [2.9] 
curriculum and syllabus are two words that are very often used interchangeably 
particularly i think er [1.9] between America and Britain there are differences 
[1.2] i don't think it's particularly useful having two words that mean the 
same thing [0.3] er when they can be used differently so what [0.2] my 
definition here of curriculum is [0.3] very much [1.4] looking at what goes on 
in language learning [0.3] not just aims and content [0.4] but also methodology 
[1.3] philosophy [1.1] and evaluation [1.0] 
but a a curriculum is the whole package [0.2] it's everything [0.6] it's [0.7] 
yes it's what you do and it's how you do it [0.2] it's also how it's evaluated 
[0.2] so curriculum can be also includes [0.2] assess-, evaluation of the 
programme that you're doing [1.3] feedback from learners feedback from teachers 
[0.2] on how successful the programme is so curriculum is a very broad umbrella 
[0.3] term [0.8] which includes [0.5] syllabus [0.4] syllabus is part of a 
curriculum [0.5] but for me curriculum [0.3] is is more [1.6] is broader [0.2] 
syllabus is narrower [0.3] syllabus means aims [0.3] and content more [2.9] and 
i've got a [0.2] task here i'd like you to do [1.3] with a little bit missing 
at the bottom there [0.7] i'd like you to look at [0.2] before we go on to talk 
about syllabus [0.8] i'd like to get your attitude to it i've given you here a 
section [0.4] from a questionnaire for language teachers [0.4] from Ron White's 
book which is in the references at the back The E-L-T Curriculum [0.3] and i'd 
like you to look at these 
six statements and see [0.2] whether you agree or disagree [0.3] left hand box 
agree [0.2] right hand box [0.5] disagree [0.3] number twenty says [0.3] the 
best syllabus is one which doesn't focus on language [0.4] at all [0.9] which 
doesn't focus on language at all [8.4] so i'd like you just to look at those [0.
8] mm [1.3] agree [0.2] and disagree [1.1] with each of those statements 
thinking about a language syllabus [0.6] and if you agree with it [1.9] with 
the s-, a statement [1.3] you can tick the box if you're not sure [0.2] you can 
sit on the fence [0.3] okay fill it in [0.2] when you've filled it in [0.2] 
compare notes with somebody sitting near you please [0.7] i'm going to give you 
five minutes to look at that and discuss it 
nf0988: when you've filled it in do turn to people sitting behind you or next 
to you [0.3] and see if they agree [41.1] 
nf0988: 
which one are you sitting on the fence on [0.3] [laughter] which one which 
one's that [0.5] 
sf1029: 
nf0988: right 
sf1029: 
nf0988: okay [0.3] okay why are you not sure about that one [0.7] 
sf1029: i think you need some organization 
nf0988: mm 
sf1029: but not so much [0.3] 
nf0988: right [0.6] okay [0.4] 
sf1030: [0.2] 
nf0988: so interest that's factor 
sf1030: yeah 
nf0988: yes 
sf1030: [0.2] 
nf0988: okay [1.0] 
sf1031: [1.0] 
nf0988: mm [0.3] and did you enjoy it [0.4] 
sf1031: er the main factor 
nf0988: yes 
sf1031: so that 
nf0988: yes yes yes yes [0.2] yes i mean a good teacher can [1.5] and also a 
good teacher with the right students 
sf1031: mm 
nf0988: you know people have been sort of selected 
sf1031: yeah 
nf0988: presumably to [0.2] follow that approach [1.0] 
sf1032: that's why i don't think 
nf0988: mm 
sf1032: 
nf0988: right 
sf1032: 
nf0988: yes yes [0.2] yes 
sf1032: [0.2] 
nf0988: yes [0.8] and the if the individual need's there i mean that brings us 
on to one of these other questions about needs [0.2] 
sf1033: 
nf0988: yeah [0.3] and some students will want linguistic [1.0] teaching and 
others may not so i mean that's an important point too [0.3] and you say you do 
agree with that because [0.4] you wouldn't be against it completely then 
sf1033: no 
nf0988: 
if somebody needs it or felt they wanted it yeah [0.2] okay [0.2] 
su1086: 
nf0988: well go through the others see how you do with them [1.0] 
sf1034: well i think that 
nf0988: yeah 
sf1034: 
nf0988: mm 
sf1035: [0.6] 
nf0988: right 
ss: 
nf0988: yes okay tha-, i think yes i think it's a question of how far but 
you're saying that you think that should be one of the strands one of the 
factors 
sf1036: yeah 
nf0988: yeah yeah 
sf1036: i think it should be one of the factors 
nf0988: yeah 
sf1036: that's the whole 
nf0988: right [0.4] okay [0.3] so it's a question of degree 
sf1036: yeah yeah 
nf0988: yeah absolutely [0.7] 
nf0988: okay good [26.9] you agree [0.6] are you not sure [0.6] 
sf1037: not sure [laughter] [0.7] 
sf1038: 
nf0988: right [0.5] right 
sf1038: 
nf0988: right [0.2] yeah yeah 
sf1038: 
nf0988: yes [1.0] but also [0.4] this issue of wants and needs [1.0] you know 
you may have learners who want you to do it that way [0.5] okay can i stop you 
there [0.9] i'm going to give you a ten minute break and i hope some of those 
ideas will continue to circulate round your head while you rush off to the loo 
or to [0.6] wherever it is you go ten minutes can we meet back at five past 
please [0.6] by that clock 
nf0988: 
okay [1.5] can you look [0.9] at the answers [3.3] to these questions that 
you've [0.8] been working on [2.0] okay [0.4] agree [0.6] disagree [1.1] 
remember our definition of syllabus [0.2] including aims and content of a 
teaching programme [0.3] not [0.2] yet specifying methodology or how that 
programme will be evaluated that's [0.2] more a curriculum [0.3] level [0.3] so 
thinking about syllabus as aims and content of a teaching programme [0.3] who 
felt that [0.2] it's important to have a carefully graded structural syllabus 
[0.3] and that that's the best way to organize a language course [1.4] namex 
yes anybody else don't be afraid it's nothing to be ashamed of i'm quite happy 
to have closet structuralists in my [0.7] [laughter] okay right [0.3] okay so 
we've got about four people [0.5] here who agree [1.2] okay so i'll put a 
little tick [0.4] who [0.2] disagrees with that [1.2] put your hand up come on 
[0.3] be confident [0.7] so about the same number [0.5] who's not sure [1.3] 
[laughter] right okay [0.3] the fence-sitters more of them okay [0.7] right [0.
2] er somebody who said you do think it's important [0.2] would you like to [0.
6] 
explain quickly why [0.2] why is it important to have a carefully graded 
structural syllabus [0.4] as the best way [0.9] to organize a language syllabus 
[1.0] or a language course [1.8] 
sm1039: at some stage you need 
nf0988: can you hear him [0.3] 
sm1039: you need to work from 
sf1040: no [0.2] speak up please 
nf0988: can you speak up namex please 
sm1039: need to work from some structure [0.3] to start with [0.3] 
nf0988: okay so he's saying it doesn't matter what else you're trying to do you 
need to have a structural syllabus underlying it all [0.4] and that that should 
be the foundation yeah 
sf1040: should think it's a like er [0.6] er designing such a such a course and 
i was one of the persons saying yes [0.4] er it's just that [1.1] be er 
flexible enough to respond to the bigger things [0.5] er [0.5] approaching [0.
2] are er [0.2] are occurring in in learners [0.2] 
nf0988: right okay [1.2] 
sf1040: to say okay [0.2] i've got a certain amount of time [0.2] to reach this 
within this this kind of of a framework and and 
nf0988: 
right [0.4] so you're arguing for flexibility 
sf1040: yes 
nf0988: but you're still saying there should be a structural syllabus 
underlying 
sf1040: yeah [0.2] 
nf0988: the whole programme people who said no anybody like to er [0.4] fight 
your corner [3.4] 
sf1041: er [0.5] actually the same reason [laughter] in that there needs to be 
sort of flexibility 
nf0988: mm [0.4] 
sf1041: er [1.1] and to to grade it so [0.5] i'm not sure if it's possible to 
grade it exactly to the needs of students in the first place [0.3] given that 
students' needs are different [0.3] with them in [0.3] either one [0.3] group 
[0.2] 
nf0988: right 
sf1041: or a set of groups teaching [0.3] 
nf0988: right [0.3] okay [0.2] so a counter-argument being [0.6] flexibility is 
more is important and that it depends upon the needs of the learners [0.5] you 
may have some learners who do need [0.2] that kind of a syllabus you may others 
who [0.2] for whom it will be a disaster [0.2] and they won't learn [0.7] okay 
initial teaching should be based on a careful contrastive analysis of the 
grammatical differences between [0.3] L-one [0.2] and L-two [0.4] 
who agrees with this [2.7] okay a solitary figure [0.5] who disagrees with it 
[1.6] right that's a big one [0.2] who's not sure [0.4] like to sit on the 
fence [0.6] i'll allow you to do that okay [0.2] well i'm sorry it's you [0.4] 
er [0.7] why [0.9] you agree with this 
sf1042: er [0.6] i think it does depend [0.2] on [0.5] whether you have a mixed 
group [0.4] like lots of diff-, [0.2] lots of backgrounds or whether you have 
[0.2] students all from one background [0.7] but i work at er [0.4] 
International College as a language assistant 
nf0988: mm 
sf1042: with Japanese students [0.4] and one of the things they do there is to 
teach a phonology class [0.8] where most of the exercises are actually based on 
differences between English and Japanese and that really does help the 
phonology to improve [0.4] 
nf0988: right 
sf1042: because things like coat and caught [0.3] 
nf0988: mm [0.4] 
sf1042: minimal pairs they can 
nf0988: lock and rock [0.8] 
sf1042: yeah [laugh] [0.3] 
nf0988: yes 
sf1042: they can't tell the difference in Japanese [0.4] 
nf0988: okay 
sf1042: so that's really helpful to them but it wouldn't be so useful to [0.4] 
people from different language backgrounds [0.8] 
nf0988: 
okay [0.4] so the argument being [0.2] that certainly at the beginning stages 
or in this case at [0.3] further down the road [0.2] a useful [0.3] thing for 
the learner is to see differences similarities and differences particularly 
when the languages are [0.3] as different as they are in the in the example you 
gave Japanese and English [0.3] people who feel that this is not [0.3] a good 
idea [0.9] yes could you explain 
sf1043: er yes because [0.2] i thought [0.3] er about the grammatical 
differences that [0.4] er maybe students would be confused [0.4] and they would 
er use their grammar with er their foreign language words and [0.2] be [1.1] i 
don't know 
nf0988: okay [0.2] so you see it as interference that that 
sf1043: yes
nf0988: that comparisons with the mother tongue [0.2] will cause interference 
sf1043: yes 
nf0988: in language learning [0.3] and [0.4] our other speaker saw it as 
actually helpful [0.2] and providing [0.3] er points of contrast that students 
can focus on so allowing to focus [0.2] in on particular areas of difficulty 
and i think those are the two 
sides of the argument here and i think [0.3] it depends also of course on [0.2] 
your teaching context [0.6] and it's extremely difficult to do this [0.2] in 
multilingual classes such as are found at language schools [0.2] in Britain and 
the United States [0.3] so [0.3] very often [0.3] there will be a pragmatic 
reason as well if you've got [0.2] seven different language groups in your 
class from a mother tongue point of view [0.2] it's going to be very difficult 
to focus in [0.2] on particular contrastive [0.4] er analysis [0.7] between [0.
3] any two particular languages [1.0] but it can be useful [0.6] and for some 
learners it's important [0.9] okay a syllabus should be based on known areas of 
difficulty in grammar and pron [2.4] who agrees with this one [2.8] okay [0.3] 
who disagrees [1.9] who's sitting on the fence [0.9] who hasn't got a hand [0.
6] [laughter] right okay [0.3] er [1.8] right [0.2] okay the no the ones who 
bel-, who agree with it why [1.2] what's useful about fo-, [0.2] basing it on 
known areas [0.2] of difficulty [5.7] anybody [0.8] yeah [0.4] mm [0.3] 
sf1044: i think er [0.5] misleading but er 
nf0988: mm 
sf1044: [0.9] it's certainly [0.4] areas that we should be taking into 
consideration [0.3] 
nf0988: right [0.5] 
sf1044: because you need to deal with problems [0.3] 
nf0988: okay yes i think it is a matter of degree [0.3] and of course what's an 
area of difficulty [0.3] that is a problem to to define because that will vary 
very much ac-, from learner to learner [0.5] and to what their previous 
language learning experience is [0.2] what their previous [1.2] er what their 
mother tongue is that will make a huge difference but okay there are things we 
know cause problems for certain learners [0.4] and if we can predict that [1.0] 
should a syllabus be based on it [0.4] or should it just be something that's 
taken into account [1.2] it's a question [0.4] that that teachers need to 
address and i'm not saying what the answer is i think [0.3] all of these things 
[0.2] depends very much on who your learners are who your teachers are [0.3] 
and what the situation is in which you're teaching [0.2] okay communicative 
needs outside the classroom [1.4] based on 
communicative needs outside the classroom agreers [0.2] please [0.2] hands up 
[0.9] quite a lot of people [0.4] disagreers [2.0] not-knowers [0.7] fence-
sitters [0.8] not sure yes [0.6] okay there is a problem of course [1.3] if i'm 
teaching English [0.3] at high school in [1.0] er [0.2] Outer Mongolia [2.7] 
can you tell me what my students' communicative needs outside the classroom are 
[4.2] teaching at [0.2] primary school [0.5] increasingly language teaching is 
going down [0.7] the levels of the education system more and more people are 
teaching English at primary school what are the communicative needs [0.2] of 
primary school children [0.3] outside the language classroom [2.4] high school 
[0.3] what are the communicative needs [0.2] of [0.3] learners [sneeze] at h-, 
sf1045: computers [0.5] 
nf0988: okay 
sf1045: computers 
nf0988: computers all right chatlines [laughter] [0.2] and er chatrooms okay 
yes [2.5] but very very difficult to define very difficult to describe our 
field is full of acronyms there's E-F-L English as a foreign language there's E-
S-L English as a second language [0.5] there's 
E-A-P English [0.2] for academic reasons [0.2] and my particular favourite is 
this one [1.5] oh there's T-E-F-L teaching English as a foreign language [0.2] 
T-E-N-O-R [0.2] teaching English for no obvious reason [0.7] [laughter] and er 
[0.4] there are lots of people around the world doing this [1.2] and in that 
context it's extremely difficult [0.3] to er [1.2] di-, [0.2] to predict the 
learners' [0.2] communicative needs outside the classroom [1.4] much easier in 
[2.4] an E-S-P context English for specific purposes English for business [0.2] 
English for [0.2] academic study [0.2] English for [0.2] travel [0.3] English 
for [1.0] the hotel industry [0.2] or whatever [0.4] but [0.5] the vast 
majority of language teachers unfortunately [0.3] are [0.2] working in a 
situation where it's not clear what the needs are going to be [0.4] but if you 
know them [0.4] yes [0.2] obviously it's a good idea [0.5] to teach towards 
them [1.0] eighteen a syllabus should take students' wants and interests into 
account even when these are different from their needs [1.2] 
i'll give you an example i was teaching a group of Algerian architects [0.5] 
and we'd spent a lot of time [0.2] looking at the language of buildings and the 
language of architecture [0.5] and one day one of them came to see me and said 
could we please do something completely different [0.3] and i said for example 
he said could we do the problem pages of newspapers i'm really interested in 
you know what [0.3] all these love letters and complaints that people are 
sending in [0.5] and he was just desperate to do something else now i didn't 
feel that he needed at that stage of his life to be [0.2] familiar with the 
genre [0.2] [laughter] of problem pages [0.3] er in news-, [0.2] newspapers [0.
3] but [0.2] that was something he wanted to do and he was bored rigid [0.4] by 
the architecture [0.4] er programme that we had lovingly prepared for him [0.9] 
so [1.5] namex [0.3] where are you now [0.8] should a syllabus take students' 
wants and interests into account when they're different from their needs put 
your hand up if you agree 
wants [0.4] and interests over [0.2] needs [1.1] okay yes why [1.3] why [2.5] 
the M word 
sf1046: keeps them motivated 
nf0988: yes [0.6] keeps them motivated if they're bored they won't learn no 
matter how good it is for them [0.9] anybody who thinks that you've got to 
hammer away at needs [1.1] even if they're in conflict [3.3] 
sf1047: would be if students are being sent by a particular company to learn a 
specific syllabus [0.6] er [0.9] and er even if the students really want to 
learn about problem pages if they're not paying and they've got a limit-, 
you've got a limited time to teach them [0.5] a set [0.5] syllabus [0.2] 
designed [0.3] between the teacher [0.5] maybe and and the company involved and 
the company's paying [0.5] you certainly don't want to be stuck in the middle 
when [0.4] the students go back and tell their boss that they've just learned 
all about problem pages for the lesson [0.2] 
nf0988: exactly yes yes okay there will be situations where the sponsor the 
boss will not like it also [0.2] i was working at one time with air traffic 
controllers in China [0.3] i didn't care [0.2] what their wants were but i know 
they needed 
air traffic control language because i was going to be flying on their 
aeroplanes [0.3] so er i would [0.2] th-, [laughter] they could have asked for 
problem pages till the cows came home [0.2] i was going to teach them the 
language of communicating with air traffic control [0.2] and other airline 
pilots 'cause i knew [0.2] [laughter] my life might depend upon it [0.5] so [1.
0] it does depend on the context [0.8] and that's a very good point who is 
paying [1.0] okay [0.3] where there is a choice communicative needs should take 
priority over grammatical grading in organizing a syllabus who agrees with this 
where you have a choice [0.3] do you go for communicative needs [0.2] or [0.6] 
grammar [0.6] hands up if you agree [0.6] hands up [sneeze] if you agree [0.9] 
okay [1.2] [sneeze] bless you [0.4] hands up if you disagree [1.9] ah more 
closet structuralists [0.3] hands up if you're not sure [1.4] okay why are you 
not sure [0.2] what's the dilemma [3.4] 
sf1049: well i think [0.7] er and i don't know really how [0.5] you would 
determine 
which one is going to be more important 'cause you know [0.3] to be able to 
communicate you need some kind of grammatical [0.5] knowledge 
nf0988: mm [0.5] 
sf1049: er [0.7] but then there'll be so 
nf0988: right [0.7] 
sf1049: i don't know [0.2] 
nf0988: okay [0.2] so seeing it very much as it's not an either-or situation [0.
3] you need to look at communicative needs as well as [0.2] grammatical grading 
[0.7] 
but the com-, the the [0.2] the two need to go together [0.5] and i think many 
[0.4] syllabus designers would agree with you [1.2] the best syllabus is one 
which doesn't focus on language at all [1.0] doesn't focus on what but focuses 
on how [0.3] anyone agree with this [1.0] no language input [0.5] explicitly [0.
5] lots of language [0.3] lots of tasks activities [0.3] but no explicit 
language focus who agrees with that one [1.8] ooh [1.5] so who disagrees with 
that one [2.6] okay and some fence-sitters have we got some fence-sitters yes 
okay that's fine [0.4] why do you disagree [1.6] it's because you're all doing 
linguistics isn't it [0.4] [laughter] if you agree with this you do yourselves 
out of a job you've got no choice at all [1.1] but 
seriously why why why do you think it's important to have some focus on 
language [5.9] 
sf1049: well i i'd like my students to be able to transfer [0.4] acquired 
knowledge to er [1.3] to to other areas and to to other contexts or [0.3] er [1.
1] er i just like them to be able to reflect upon what they're doing [0.3] 
nf0988: mm mm [2.0] what's the danger do you know the the term er the danger if 
you if you never focus on [0.4] er [1.0] language at all [0.8] what is the the 
danger for your learners [1.7] think of little stones in the ground yes sorry 
[0.7] 
sf1050: oh i was going to say that [0.6] if [1.8] if there's no focus on 
language in itself 
nf0988: mm 
sf1050: er [0.5] but [0.3] th-, there'd be a lot of teacher talking time [1.0] 
er certainly at the beginning 
nf0988: mm 
sf1050: and there may not be [0.9] er [1.3] it may not be as communicative as 
you maybe [0.2] would like it to be but [0.8] 
nf0988: right 
sf1050: but maybe [1.6] it may be a lot of copying [0.2] 
nf0988: mm 
sf1050: 
and your students 
nf0988: mm 
sf1050: and things like that i'm not sure whether that 
nf0988: without an explicit focus on language 
sf1050: yeah [0.4] 
nf0988: so that [0.8] okay [1.0] so that you you think you need the explicit 
focus on language to make sure they get it right [0.4] and so that they're not 
just taking you as the 
sf1050: not just copying you 
nf0988: yes not just [0.6] parroting imitating yes yes okay to make it more 
cognitive [0.2] 
sf1050: yeah 
nf0988: and less behaviourist in a way [0.3] okay [0.3] fine [1.1] i think the 
worry many teachers have is [1.0] if you don't focus on language you can end up 
with the fluent [0.4] but [0.5] fossilized [2.2] speaker [1.9] and [0.5] i 
would imagine most people have met these in their time [0.2] this is the person 
who is very fluent in the target language [0.2] can say everything they want to 
say [0.3] but it is [0.3] it's fossilized it it's frozen [0.4] in stone [0.2] 
errors and all [0.4] and so that the language is fluent but not accurate 
inaccuracies [0.2] are part of [0.2] that learner's [0.3] idiolect [0.3] and 
they are 
no-, no longer [0.4] focusing on the language per se [0.2] but purely on 
communication [0.4] and i think many [0.5] for many teachers [0.7] today that's 
a worry [0.5] we do not wa-, no learner has ever said to me [0.2] teach me to 
speak English inaccurately [3.3] but they've also said i don't want to just 
focus on language i want to be able to communicate [0.4] but they do also 
understand i think [0.7] and if we're going to take their needs and wants into 
account [0.2] that language is a system [0.2] and they want to get it right [1.
1] they don't to [0.3] be wrong [0.7] okay [0.3] so [2.6] looking at syllabuses 
[7.4] the next page i've [0.6] photocopied for you [0.7] it hasn't come out 
very well on my [0.4] transparency but you've got a better version [0.3] i've 
photocopied for you Chris Brumfit who's one of the [0.6] leaders in our field 
[0.3] he put a lot of thought into what is a syllabus [1.9] and i thought this 
was quite a useful extended definition that we've got here on the handout [0.5] 
a syllabus [1.8] for many people is a document [0.2] it's a piece of paper [0.
4] it's something handed down [1.4] who from who hands down syllabuses [0.2] to 
teachers in the state sector [1.3] 
sf1051: [0.9] 
nf0988: sorry [0.7] 
sf1051: Ministry of Education 
nf0988: ministr-, in many countries it's the Ministry of Education [0.4] if 
it's not the Ministry of Education it will be a head of department or somebody 
like that [0.5] er some contexts where there are no syllabuses [0.2] people 
will use [3.4] the textbook can become the syllabus [1.2] but that that i think 
is rather worrying [0.3] because who is to say that the textbook writer had 
your [0.2] students' needs in [0.2] in mind when they wrote the book [0.6] so 
most people would be more comfortable with a syllabus that is [0.2] a 
specification [0.7] of the work of a particular department in a school or 
college [0.4] organized in subsections defining the work of a particular group 
or class [0.3] so it's not just a generic textbook that anybody can buy around 
the world it's a specific [1.5] er [0.3] outline [0.3] of what's going to be 
done by a particular group or class [0.5] many syllabuses are linked to time [1.
2] and will specify a starting point and 
an ultimate goal [0.6] what your students will be able to do [0.3] by the end 
of the course by the end of the the period in which the syllabus is covering [1.
1] and that could be defined in grammatical terms it could be defined in 
phonological terms [0.6] communicative terms [0.9] functional terms things they 
can do [0.3] by the end [1.7] er [0.3] a syllabus will specify some kind of 
sequence [2.4] which will be based on [2.5] some of the issues you looked at 
with namex [0.4] sequencing intrinsic to a theory of language learning or to 
the structure of specified material relatable to language acquisition [0.3] but 
i hope that you did get from namex's sessions the important point that we don't 
know a huge amount [0.6] about [0.8] the sequence [1.4] of language learning 
beyond very basic [0.2] morphemes [1.8] and [0.2] some structures we're not 
really very clear [0.4] at the beginning level it's relatively easy [0.2] at 
the m-, intermediate and more advanced level it's extremely difficult [0.6] the 
other [1.1] factor that will influence sequencing is administrative needs [0.6] 
and resources the 
materials that you have [1.2] and the teachers' [0.7] capabilities [5.1] it's a 
document of administrative convenience [1.5] it's not [1.2] theory [0.5] it's 
based in theory but it's administrative convenience [0.3] and so it'll only be 
partly justified on theoretical grounds [0.3] so it's negotiable and adjustable 
[0.6] a good syllabus [0.9] will allow for some negotiation [0.6] and syllabus 
[0.2] writers will listen to teachers listen to learners [0.2] and will [0.4] 
adapt and adjust [0.2] their syllabus according to [0.2] the voices from the 
classroom [0.5] that they hear [0.2] and their own experience [1.3] this is my 
favourite point [1.1] a syllabus can only specify what is taught [0.3] it 
cannot organize what is learned [1.6] so that if i am [0.3] inheriting a class 
from another teacher [0.2] and they say this is the syllabus [0.3] i look at it 
i'm very interested at the syllabus we did last year [0.2] but i do not [0.9] 
believe that means all those learners [0.2] know everything [0.2] covered [0.3] 
by the syllabus [0.7] as one of my colleagues once said the only way to cover a 
syllabus [0.2] is to take brown paper [0.2] and cover it [0.3] 
completely [0.7] from [0.3] er [0.3] so [0.2] it's what is taught not what has 
been learned [0.4] but what's important also about a syllabus [0.4] is it's a 
public document and it's an expression of accountability parents will come 
sponsors will come and say you haven't done this [0.5] page three of the 
syllabus says you should have taught this by now [0.2] you haven't done it [0.
2] learners will do it too [0.2] it's accountability it's a way of making 
teachers accountable [1.8] and education systems accountable and you can tick 
[0.3] things off [0.4] and say [0.3] i've taught it [1.0] but you can't say [0.
2] they've [0.8] learned it [0.3] you can only say i've taught it i think [7.9] 
so syllabus very important [1.5] very useful document i would be very 
suspicious [0.3] of a language programme that didn't have a syllabus [1.8] and 
i want to move on now to talk about different [0.2] kinds of syllabus [0.6] er 
[0.7] namex [0.2] namex [0.4] talked to you very quickly about grammar 
translation [0.5] with the focus [0.4] on written language [0.8] translation 
from mother tongue [0.3] to the target language and back a-, backwards [0.2] he 
also talked about the direct method can you remember what was one of the 
differences between [0.5] grammar translation and the direct method [0.4] 
grammar translation [0.2] written language [1.2] in and out of the target 
language [0.4] direct method 
sf1052: that's spoken 
nf0988: spoken language a shift of focus to spoken language and [1.9] direct in 
what way was it direct [0.5] 
sf1053: just in the target 
nf0988: right 
sf1053: mm 
nf0988: yes just in the target language no [0.2] mother tongue support at all 
[1.5] he talked about graded structural teaching [0.4] with a grammar focus and 
sequence he talked about audiolingualism [1.4] based upon which theory of 
learning [0.5] audiolingualism [0.9] 
ss: 
nf0988: where 
sf1054: listening first [0.2] 
nf0988: sorry 
sf1054: listening first 
sf1055: [0.6] 
nf0988: listening first and listening and 
sf1056: [laughter] 
nf0988: repeating listening and repeating listening and repeating based upon [0.
6] stimulus response 
sf1057: er behaviourism [0.3] 
nf0988: behaviourism [0.5] don't make mistakes [0.3] let's just [0.2] imitate 
[0.9] correctly [1.3] i'd like to look now with you at er [2.0] communicative 
language teaching [1.0] but just before i do that i'd like you to look at [0.8] 
the diagram from Stern which is on page five of your handout 'cause i think 
it's quite a nice summary [1.0] of what we're [0.3] looking at here today and 
next week and i-, with namex in the weeks to come [5.6] 
[cough] [0.3] okay [3.4] teaching strat-, it's divi-, he's divided it up he's 
talk about treatment [0.2] options [2.1] in language teaching [0.6] different 
ways we can treat [0.6] language teaching [0.2] teaching strategies timing 
strategies [0.7] social [0.2] strategies we talked a little bit about social 
stategies today [0.3] with who does most of the talking in the classroom [0.2] 
is it the teacher [0.2] or is it the learner [1.6] people mentioned working in 
groups [0.4] and pairs [0.2] we haven't looked particularly at the individual 
learner but these are sort of [0.5] different [1.8] aspects of the social 
strategy [0.3] of learning and teaching [0.7] teaching strategies [3.1] namex t-
, looked at this crosslingual comparing languages [1.1] similarities and 
differences between the target language and [0.5] the 
mother tongue intralingual [0.2] intracultural [1.1] all done in the target 
language no reference at all [0.4] to other languages that you can speak [1.1] 
analytic [0.7] and experiential which we're going to look at now analytic 
approach to language [0.2] versus an experiential [0.5] approach to language [0.
8] analytic objective formal and language-centred the what [0.7] of language 
teaching versus experiential [0.5] communicative [1.2] functional [0.2] message-
centred [0.2] participatory [0.7] how [0.5] how do we communicate [1.5] the 
distinction that namex drew with you between learning and acquisition [1.4] 
explicit learning [0.2] which is logical and involves reasoning [1.0] versus [0.
3] implicit [0.6] acquisition [0.8] which is intuitive and hopefully automatic 
[2.5] and these are [0.9] the dichotomies they're clines [0.2] language 
teaching will be typically [0.2] somewhere in the middle [0.5] of all of these 
[1.4] and next week we're going to be looking at [0.3] receptive and expressive 
skills [0.3] listening [0.9] and reading versus speaking and writing so it's 
quite a nice diagram i think pulling together [3.9] what's involved in 
language teaching timing strategies [0.3] namex [0.3] i think if i remember 
correctly said up to the age of six [0.3] how many hours instruction [0.5] does 
a child have in their mother tongue can anybody remember the figure [1.2] i 
think it was [0.9] i'll have to check my notes it was about ten-thousand i 
think a child has had about ten-thousand hours of language instruction [0.3] by 
the age of six [0.3] one to one very often [1.2] with a parent or a carer [0.9] 
er [1.1] in a [0.2] secondary [0.4] education system how many hours do you 
think the average secondary school pupil gets [0.5] of foreign language 
instruction between the ages of eleven and eighteen [2.7] in a class of thirty 
[0.6] or forty or fifty [0.3] 
sf1058: about sixty [0.3] 
nf0988: mm [0.2] 
sf1058: maybe about sixty hours [0.2] 
nf0988: sixty between eleven and eighteen 
sf1059: oh no it's a bit more than that [0.7] 
nf0988: no i h-, hope it's a bit more than that i'd be a-, 
sf1059: yeah think so 
sf1060: 
nf0988: probably no more than a th-, [0.8] a thousand [0.7] okay so that in 
their whole years [0.2] of secondary education [0.2] when okay you're 
cognitively more developed than a child 
learning their mother tongue [0.2] you're also [0.3] er [0.4] fluent in another 
language which a child learning their mother tongue is not [0.2] but you are [0.
2] learning in a very different context [0.7] classroom with lots of other 
people and you might get if you're lucky about a thousand hours of instruction 
[0.4] between the ages of eleven and eighteen if [0.3] you are studying [0.2] 
foreign languages throughout [0.3] compare that with a child up to the age of 
six having about ten-thousand hours [0.6] there is also this whole issue of [0.
4] small amounts of time versus large amounts of time that has all sorts of 
implications for what we teach and how we teach it [1.3] if i've got twenty 
hours to teach my air traffic controllers [0.2] the basic [0.3] er linguistic 
[1.5] things they will need to communicate i'm going to be very brutal [0.3] 
about er what i do [0.2] and very ruthless in determining the syllabus [1.1] 
i'll have to be efficient if i've got a lot of time if i've got them for a 
couple of years on an intensive programme [0.3] we've got time [0.2] to be more 
relaxed and less 
focused perhaps [0.4] so distribution of time also is it concentrated [0.9] 
intensive compact is it immersion [0.7] are you living in the country where the 
language is spoken are you attending a [0.6] er a school [0.9] in the country 
[0.3] or is it distributed or extended is it drip-feed [1.4] so [1.7] a useful 
diagram i think that pulls together [0.2] many of the factors we have to think 
about and i'd like you now [0.3] to spend five minutes noting down what d-, you 
think are [0.2] some of the other factors influencing syllabus design i've left 
a space for you on page five [0.3] to note down factors that influence syllabus 
design if i said to you you've got to write a syllabus [0.3] for teaching 
English [0.2] to this group of learners [0.9] what [0.4] would you want to know 
about them [0.2] what factors would influence [0.3] your decision [0.7] age [0.
8] could be one [0.8] can you note down some more [8.3] 
nf0988: and do do it together do talk about it it doesn't need to be done 
individually what factors would influence [0.2] syllabus design [0.3] so 
learners' age is one [34.4] 
nf0988: ah there it is 
nf0988: 
okay let's see what we've got [1.0] anybody like to give me [0.3] some factors 
[1.4] 
sf1061: age [0.7] 
nf0988: age [0.6] yeah 
sf1062: gender [1.0] gender 
nf0988: gender [1.3] 
sf1063: subject [0.5] 
nf0988: what do you mean by subject [0.2] 
sf1063: well the course [1.7] 
nf0988: so you mean their needs 
sm1064: students 
nf0988: their 
ss: needs 
sf1063: me i mean the course of the syllabus 
nf0988: right but okay but subject 
sf1063: yeah 
nf0988: it could be foreign language [0.4] 
sf1063: yeah [0.2] 
nf0988: second language [0.2] 
sf1063: yeah [0.6] 
nf0988: special [0.2] specific needs 
sf1065: mm 
sf1063: yeah [1.8] 
nf0988: for example [0.7] er English [1.6] for business [0.5] yeah [0.3] okay 
thank you [0.8] so what are their what are their needs the context yes any more 
[0.4] 
sm1066: resources 
sf1067: their level [0.3] 
nf0988: level 
sf1068: the level [0.2] 
nf0988: [laughter] the l-, level of learners yeah thank you [0.2] keep you er 
it's okay i can [0.3] i can listen and write at the same time so do shout [0.6] 
sm1066: resources 
nf0988: resources very important [0.2] yes [0.8] what resources [0.4] 
sm1066: er human or er [0.3] things 
like that [0.3] 
nf0988: yeah human and [1.2] 
sm1066: learners even 
nf0988: material [0.2] 
sm1066: yeah [2.8] 
nf0988: ah you say learners so what do you mean [0.9] 
sm1066: well i mean a syllabus should be designed in some way that er you have 
er [0.2] 
nf0988: okay so that's sort of we're getting at that here aren't we [0.9] here 
learners yeah [0.5] 
sf1069: [0.4] 
nf0988: okay anything else about the learners we need to know [0.3] 
sf1070: ability 
sm1071: [0.3] 
nf0988: sorry [0.3] 
sf1070: mental ability 
nf0988: mental ooh yes [0.3] er [0.2] shall we call it what was namex's term 
for it 
ss: 
nf0988: aptitude [0.5] whatever that is language learning aptitude aptitude I-Q 
if you like ooh [0.2] risky [0.6] yes [0.2] okay but [0.4] yes [0.4] 
sf1072: [cough] [0.3] time [0.3] 
nf0988: mm [0.3] 
sf1072: time [0.2] 
nf0988: time [0.7] yes very important how much time you've got [1.9] a week a 
month a year ten years [1.4] 
sf1073: the environment [0.3] 
nf0988: what do you mean by the environment [0.7] 
sf1073: er [0.5] their culture 
or the whatever classroom whatever it is [0.7] 
nf0988: okay so the learners' [0.6] er cultural [1.0] 
sf1073: background 
nf0988: background 
sf1073: yeah [0.9] 
nf0988: and that is [0.3] sort of at a you mean at a sort of a national level 
[0.4] or [0.5] ethnic level but also classroom [0.8] the [0.7] there is a also 
clo-, classroom culture have they come out of [0.2] what do they expect from 
the teacher what do they expect [0.5] from learning and teaching [0.2] yeah [0.
3] from school [0.7] 
sf1074: their experience with languages 
nf0988: right okay [0.8] their language learning experience [3.5] how many 
languages do they speak and how successfully [1.3] yeah [0.5] 
sf1075: how recent they [0.2] how recently they've been taught [0.5] 
nf0988: okay [0.7] 
sf1076: 
nf0988: so it's languages [0.6] proficiency [1.2] how recently [1.7] the time 
scale yes [1.6] 
has it been twenty years since they set foot in a language classroom or are 
they [3.2] fresh [0.8] off the plane [0.2] from another one yeah [0.6] 
sf1076: er [0.2] whether you're teaching mixed groups in the target language 
country [0.3] mixed groups in [0.9] their own country 
nf0988: yes [0.2] so the context [0.9] are you [0.3] are you there [0.4] or are 
you here [0.8] are you teaching it in their country [0.2] or are you teaching 
it [0.2] here [0.3] so is it [0.2] E-S E-F-L [0.2] or is it E- [0.7] S-L [4.8] 
and also i suppose if it's E-S-L sorry E-F-L [0.3] you or or well either of 
them actually [0.7] the [0.2] nationality of the students [0.4] or more 
importantly [0.5] their L-one [0.4] how may different L-ones have you got [0.6] 
mother tongues in the group [0.3] yep [0.3] anything else [2.9] 
sf1077: subject [0.3] goal [1.1] 
nf0988: okay 
sf1077: it's for a specific kind of examination [0.9] at the end of it or 
nf0988: yes learners' goals motivation [0.2] why are they doing it [0.8] get 
more money [1.2] find a partner [0.8] er [2.8] [laughter] get a new life find a 
job [0.8] 
pass the time [1.0] why are they doing it 
sf1078: 
nf0988: mm [0.4] 
sf1078: 
nf0988: interests [6.5] learners' interests [0.7] very important [1.1] what are 
they interested in [1.2] so [0.2] yes so i think we can divide these up into 
various categories one is the learners [0.5] questions such as who are they [0.
8] what's their previous language learning experience in [0.2] the target 
language also in other foreign languages [0.3] what do they think about 
teaching and learning what are their concepts [0.6] what does a classroom mean 
for them what does language learning mean for them because if you ask them to 
do something very new [0.3] they may reject it as it may not look like [0.2] 
proper teaching [0.7] so what methods [0.6] of teaching have they experienced 
before [0.3] what methods do they like [0.3] what methods will alienate them [0.
2] students from some cultures if you put them into groups and say talk [0.6] 
will run a mile [0.4] they don't want to do it other cultures [0.2] you say get 
into groups and talk and you 
can't shut them up [0.7] [laughter] and i'm not identifying the cultures right 
[0.4] er motivation and attitude yes very important towards the target language 
group [0.5] do they want to become part of it are they hostile towards it [0.2] 
how do they feel what's their motivation is it instrumental [0.3] or 
integrative do they want to join in [0.3] or do they just want to [0.2] use the 
language for something else and then go home [0.3] their culture [0.2] their 
values intact [1.1] er [1.2] or are they just neutral [0.2] they just [0.6] 
have no particular motivation [0.4] age gender young old [0.7] mixed age within 
the class [0.5] that's quite a challenge often [0.3] or are they all more or 
less the same age [2.6] aptitude we've talked about are they good learners do 
they see themselves as good learners more to the point or do they see 
themselves as false beginners as failed learners [0.8] or are they mixed 
ability their needs [0.5] it's very ea-, it's much easier if their needs are 
specific if you know why they are learning [0.7] if you're in a TENOR [0.3] 
situation it's much more 
challenging [0.6] what's the if you know their needs what's the target setting 
[0.2] what context will they need [0.2] English for [0.2] they're going to be a 
hotel reception [0.4] clerk for example [0.7] what is their role going to be [1.
3] in that context are they going to be a customer a client [0.4] a boss [1.2] 
whatever [1.2] who are they going to use the language with [0.6] colleagues 
friends superiors inferiors [1.8] and what are the content areas going to be [0.
2] what do you have to teach them what [0.6] language do they need to know what 
vocabulary domains do they need to learn [0.5] and the language skills [0.2] do 
they need reading and writing as well [0.2] or do they just need speaking and 
listening or do they need a mixture [0.7] and what level of competence for 
reading and writing [0.2] speaking and listening how good do they have to be [0.
9] also what's the exam going to be at the end i always ask that [0.3] what's 
the exam at the end because [0.2] the exam at the end has a huge [0.2] impact 
[0.3] on what you can do in the classroom [0.9] 'cause if you try going in and 
not teaching 
summary writing [0.5] when summary writing is on the syllabus for the exam [0.
8] you'll have a riot on your hands [1.2] what's the language of the syllabus 
is it similar to their mother tongue or different is it the same script or 
different that's important [0.4] and this very important point about [0.2] 
resources [0.2] human resources who are the other teachers [0.8] and what 
materials do you have [1.3] and what [0.3] equipment do you have [0.7] and also 
outside all of that there are the cultural [0.7] political economic factors 
that impact on everything we do [0.5] as teachers [0.2] in any context [3.1] 
i'm going to finish now by talking [0.3] a little bit about communicative 
language teaching [2.3] i'm aware that namex looked a-, [0.8] quickly at most 
of the other methods of language teaching but communicative language teaching 
he didn't actually get on to [0.6] so [1.2] if you can find your handout [4.9] 
i've taken Stern's [0.2] division of communicative language teaching [1.2] i-, 
into two he talked about analytical approaches and non-analytical [0.3] 
experiential approaches we'll probably just 
finish the first one today and move on [0.3] to the second one next time [0.4] 
communicative language teaching [3.6] it's a shift [1.6] in focus from language 
[0.2] to [1.8] from language usage [3.2] to use [0.9] so not [0.6] what do you 
say but how [0.3] do you say it [2.1] and the first [1.1] distinction here [0.
8] was analytic [1.0] the functional approach looking at language [0.2] trying 
to see instead of looking at the grammar of the language [0.2] the vocabulary 
of the language trying to see [0.3] the social and environmental context in 
which people used language [0.5] and the influence here of semantics [0.2] 
speech act theory what we know about [0.2] how people use language to do things 
[0.8] and what we know from discourse analysis [0.5] moving away from looking 
at sentences words and sentences [0.2] to whole pieces of discourse a whole 
dialogue [0.3] a whole [0.4] newspaper article a whole letter [0.2] rather than 
[0.2] focusing in [0.2] at the sentence level which is what people had done 
before so very important [0.5] important names here [0.3] David Wilkins 
formerly of this parish or still of this parish actually [0.3] professor at 
namex [0.5] nineteen-seventy-six [1.3] publishing [0.6] his concept of a 
notional syllabus it's on your bibliography [2.3] David Wilkins The Notional [0.
3] Syllabuses [1.1] notions being things like [1.1] space [0.2] time [0.4] 
distance [0.7] weight [0.7] er [2.7] concepts such as that [0.2] but what 
caught on much more [0.2] was the idea of functions [3.9] so you might have [0.
2] a notion [2.3] which would be time [0.7] but the function would be [0.2] 
asking [0.9] the time [2.1] or [0.4] telling [1.4] the time [1.7] little hint 
[0.3] when you're looking for functions [0.2] they always have I-N-G at the end 
[0.6] asking for information [0.3] telling the time [0.5] complaining [0.4] 
requesting [0.3] et cetera et cetera [0.4] so [0.3] moving in nineteen-seventy-
six [0.4] and the Council of Europe [0.3] van Eyck [1.8] working [1.6] in the 
nineteen-seventies early eighties [0.3] the Council of Europe [2.9] wanting to 
look at modern language teaching across Europe [0.4] so you can't do it on a 
language by language basis [0.3] 
we're not interested in the differences at the grammatical and linguistic level 
[0.3] trying to look at what language does [0.2] so in all languages [0.2] 
people complain [0.2] in all languages [0.2] people [0.3] ask [0.9] er for 
information in all languages people invite or criticize or whatever [0.2] so 
actually a very useful framework for thinking about language at a level above 
[0.3] individual languages [3.9] and [0.3] this concept of usage and use from 
Henry Widdowson [0.7] coming in at about the same time so the nineteen-
seventies a very important time for language teaching [0.3] moving away from 
behaviourism moving away from [0.4] grammar translation and the direct method 
coming in [0.2] but [0.3] looking not at individual utterances but language in 
context a socio [0.5] logical perspective on it all [0.2] context influencing 
[0.2] meanings and the important notion of communicative competence coming in 
at this time [2.6] and the names [0.7] communicative competence [1.6] the 
underlying communicative 
competence and the names Canale and Swain [0.7] i'm giving you this detail in 
case you want to explore it for a for an assignment or an exam question [0.5] 
and there are references [0.3] on the bibliography [0.5] but i'm also aware ti-,
we've got two minutes left [0.4] so i'm [0.3] also pushing on quite h-, [0.2] 
quite fast [1.0] so that [0.7] saying something like it's five past [0.4] 
eleven [1.2] at the beginning of this lecture [3.0] could say [0.3] if i walk 
into the room [0.6] we're due to start at eleven and i say [0.3] it's five past 
eleven [0.8] what am i doing [2.1] am i telling the time [2.9] no i'm not am i 
[0.2] we've all got a clock we all know by saying it's five past eleven [0.3] 
i'm not showing my linguistic aptitude and my ability to read clocks [laughter] 
and tell the time [0.3] what am i doing [1.7] 
sf1079: to communicate
sf1080: making a point that someone's late 
nf0988: i'm making a point that that people are late perhaps 
sf1081: 
nf0988: i'm making the point that i'm going to 
ss: to start 
nf0988: to start [0.4] even 
though maybe not everybody is here [0.2] and that late-comers come in [0.6] er 
[0.2] er under their own steam [0.4] and i'm i'm actually [0.2] indicating [0.
2] that i'm kicking off [0.2] and i'm justifying it [0.2] by saying it's five 
past eleven [0.6] let's get going [0.7] okay so that's what's understood by [0.
8] a functional approach people with communicative competence will understand 
that [0.3] for what it is [1.1] it's not [0.3] telling the time [0.2] it's 
actually [0.4] er indicating commencement and justifying that commencement [1.
5] so context is very important and context includes participants who you are 
talking to and who is saying it [0.4] if one of you if namex had said it's five 
past eleven [1.2] it wouldn't be indicating we were about to start would it [0.
4] what would that be indicating [1.2] 
sm1082: we're late [0.8] 
nf0988: we're late starting it could be s-, i would take that as [2.5] 
sm1083: complaint [laughter] 
nf0988: 
a complaint [0.5] a criticism [0.4] okay [0.6] because of the nature of the 
relationship and if a student says to a lecturer at a lecture that's supposed 
to have started at eleven [0.2] it's five past eleven it's a criticism it's 
saying get a move on [0.2] time to start 
sm1083: it's one o'clock [0.2] 
nf0988: sorry 
sm1083: it's one o'clock [0.2] 
nf0988: it's [laughter] [0.2] and it's now ten to one [0.2] [laughter] so it's 
definitely 
sm1083: that's a lie 
nf0988: yeah [laughter] [0.2] yes yes the fact that he says it's one o'clock [0.
2] er again [laughter] we're not interested in time here [0.4] he is telling me 
that his stomach is rumbling [0.2] and [laughter] it's time for lunch [0.3] and 
on that note i am going to stop [laughter] i'll be [laughter] [0.3] i can take 
a hint 
sm1083: sorry 
nf0988: [0.2] i will [0.7] please could you bring this [1.0] this with you next 
time [0.4] i'll see you next next Wednesday same time same place