sm5382: well do you want to get out that handout that we got early on nm5380: oh yes sm5382: which says that it has to it has to have a fifteen-thousand word summary and then a fifteen-thousand word technical report nm5380: right sm5382: which is not how we sm5385: yeah its not the standard report layout that we've er nm5380: oh right sm5385: been used to for over four years they've gone and changed it nm5380: okay nf5381: is that new this year sm5382: fifteen-thousand words summary and then up to another fifteen in technical report sm5383: its more like sm5385: it says er its not quite like introduction and aims and objectives isn't it nf5381: this is going to be sm5383: the first the first half group summary sm5384: it is quite open to er to sub-sections nm5379: so its its right yeah its its quite big thing really the group summary report sm5382: it seems that the first half has to be the kind of thing you'd pr-, present to like somebody who doesn't really have any you know deep technical knowledge of it nm5379: i don't i don't think you would necessarily interpret it like that but suppose it says venture capitalist doesnt it sm5385: yeah it also says down here something about nm5379: it's never going to be simple enough to do it is it sm5384: no sm5385: er research project should be laid out in an appropriate manner suitable to what they've done if you nm5380: sorry y-, y-, you're referring to something here sm5385: yeah in ref-, in referral to research projects something something else nm5380: oh i'm hopeless at trying to find something in the same i think in the group report well lets sm5382: for more research based projects something there su: right so nm5380: yeah right well okay that's a let out that's basically a let out clause isn't it really su: yeah there's nothing we can do su: ignore the first bit and we'll do what we're hoping to do right nm5380: i mean business financial and management report er well i don't know about a business report i mean this work is of use to people outside but not necessarily to business i mean its to sort of technical busi-, i mean you know er expensive su: its not like we're going to market it or anything nf5381: but that that's more appropriate for a group project where you're developing nm5380: if you're doing a survey nf5381: a product or so you know some the groups they work on developing some sort of product for instance then so that so that's more appropriate then for them to look at a sort of nm5380: i mean it does say detailing any business plan developed so i mean clearly if there isn't a business plan you're not going to be talking about it nm5379: the-, the-, there are small issues aren't there of the cost i mean the the the the the the price is sm5385: well there's the cost of the boards and stuff like that yeah nm5379: and the implications as to why you went down a certain route you know isn't it i mean why it sort of mentions if someone says well why didn't you do this its expensive isn't it i mean its always going to be too expensive nm5380: yeah i mean there there are you know ri-, right at the beginning we talked about the different approaches i mean you are going down as Mark said you're going down a particular road with the er you know mapping onto a micro er a D-S-P microprocessor there's still there's the optical route and ma-, maybe one could have some some ideas about that you know er are you you you're looking at that still sm5382: yeah i mean i was thinking that would have to go in the technical half because it well because it seemed that er with that where it says research projects could be laid out differently it it seemed to me to be referring tothe layout of the summary not that er it would have to be split in half sm5385: yeah i thnk it would still have to be su: you'd still have to do the sm5385: the fifteen-thousand word summary yeah nm5379: but the thing is with the summary when you get to as long as that its a bit more than a normal summary well you'd just structure it as you would nm5380: we mark it as well don't we so the basic thing is if we mislead you and then mark it as down then you'd have a cause for complaint so if we if we guide you in a certain direction we will then mark to that and we will we would take the flack from the department because that was what we were supposed to do its not you're fault its its our fault isnt it so so so you've done the best you can given what we've told you sm5383: i think we could do much better if we could just follow a standard nm5380: can you can you can you get access to previous sm5382: well that's what we were going to ask you if there's any way that we can get a nm5380: i'm i'm sure because you know nf5381: i have got a copy of one but its a few years old in my office a copy of nm5380: the undergraduate office i presume must hold these because certainly certainly i i i i've encouraged third year students doing projects to get er third year project reports from the previous years if its appropriate nm5379: which are held by the general office not by the undergraduate office nm5380: oh right well generally perhaps nm5379: no your supervisor has to sign it to to say i mean you know its quite a procedure nm5380: but really we're talking about those from last year i mean you just need to see to see a guide of of course bearing in mind that there's been a change but pos-, possiby not make much difference to us because this p-, this project isn't really you know we're not manu-, manufacturing something for a specific er er market if you like i think nm5379: mm mm i think i think er you know the the you could probably bring yours into this this st-, we could argue that yours was in this structure sm5382: we we've got a rough sort of structure thing but its sort of like we're working what we do to to do this if we had to just do it it wouldn't be anything like this sm5383: a kind of distraction nm5379: i think what you have to do is you have to try and do that unless it really wo-, won't go because er we we'll we we'll accept an interpretation we're not going to rigidly say oh well it doesn't have this that and the other because we didn't write this really so er treat it in the spirit of perhaps when you're asked to tender for business you'll have very strange ways of asking you for tenders that youdn't yourself so you say well given like that we'll er sm5382: so are there any other any other assessors that mark it there are other assessors aren't there other assessors do they mark ike totally independently because they might er be expecting a particular thing like that and then if they get it and its different they might go well you didn't follow the instructions nm5379: well i think you may have to yes so so keep it so that it could be in the spirit of that sm5382: yes nm5379: but push it as far as you can you know thats defensible er basically you've got sort of t-, i mean those are almost like apend-, the technical ones are almost like detailed apendices so you could argue that the you could argue that the main the main mathematical bits and pieces were in were in the summary and then that you know the fine detail of it was in was in that part so you know i don't think that you've got to take all of of the maths out because we would argue that it was a research-based project sm5385: so you have like the answer in the summary bit and how you get that answer in the technical bit because it nm5380: yes do remember that it says maximum though of fifteen thousand words people have been saying you've got to right a fifteen thousand word report the wording is maximum sm5382: maximum nm5380: so the maximum total is thirty-thousand as well isn't it the whole portfolio nm5380: an upper an upper word count of thirty-thousand words excluding figures and apendices right thats to keep it to keep it manageable but it doesn't mean that you have to go you have to keep checking the word count to make sure you are getting closer to thirty-thousand sm5383: and things like er wave-length theory and stuff like that would that all go in the technical half do you think nm5380: i would think so yeah i would think so because the group summary report might be correct me if i'm wrong i mean yeah i-, i-, it says this it it will be going to somebody who maybe who might have done a degree in engineering but would not be close wo-, wouldn't have a close relationship wi-, with wave- length analysis for instance so somebody who could see something th-, that is feasible and a possible way of making money since it talks about venture capitalism here and so on somebody who could see how it could be developed exploited but maybe doesn't understand the finer points of wave-length theory does-, doesn't wan-, to doesn't need to really but somebody who is interested in the technical work would obviously go to the technical report so its really that the group summary report is aimed at a particular group of people sm5384: well we said we could just refer to anything that we want to state in the summary then we could just refer to the technical bit anyway couldn't we be sort of er nm5380: yes yes just as you would be in just as you would reference books outside of those two documents so are there any other because you said you said that this was the main point of discussion today was to talk about the group summary sorry th-, th-, th-, the reports that you had to write sm5383: the report yeah sm5382: er well i've got i've got er something of a rough sort of layout that we are talking through and me and Pete changed it a bit last night from what we did on Tuesday but its roughly the same we're thinking with the summary we'll just start off with aims adn objectives right and er and maybe some stuff about sonar active versus passive and maybe a bit of history or whatever and then we'll talk about all the different things we could have done like optical D-S-P we'll do it quite briefly and then have er detailed er description of particularly the optical stuff in the technical report then then talk about what we did like mat-lab and the simu-link and then the C code which we haven't done yet and then er the front end design which er we need to talk about as well today because we were thinking that we need er something to communicate with it like er a i don't know whether we write it in J-A-V-A or C-plus-plus or something like that and then conclusions and applications and stuff and then that will be the summary and then the report would be wave-length theory details of the implementations like the optical stuff and details on like testing and things like that and hopefully that's enough nm5380: it sounds it sounds fine from my point of view nm5379: yes sounds sounds okay nf5381: yeah sm5385: great nm5380: what what was that the end the end of the story then there's nothing more to say or er can i i mean in terms of what's been going on in the last week er you know i've been in contact with this guy Clayton Hudson well maybe some of you well perhaps you all know by now Clayton Hudson of Motorola who was very positive wh-, wh-, when do you remember was it last Friday or last Thursday sm5385: last Thursday i think nm5380: last Thursday okay and i did email him and er i haven't had an acknowledgement but that doesn't mean anything necessarily but you know i'm i'm hoping that in the post clearly not today but early next we will get little parcel and that will be the boards that we want but i'll wait i don't like hassling somebody particularly when they offered it for free nm5379: yes nm5380: so i think we just wait a couple of da-, may be to the middle of week and then if i haven't received it i'll then phone and politely say did you get my email or something you know i i'll perhaps phone him up sm5382: yeah nm5380: because maybe there's som-, somebody's had problems sending me emails er although generally i get emails everyday but sm5382: i think its only James sm5383: yes its just James nm5380: no no not no some-, somebody from from from Amer-, from from the States said that they kept sending emails and they got bounced back but maybe they just chose times when our system was off the air i don't know sm5385: which is about half the time nm5380: half the time yes nm5379: internal ones are being lost as well nm5380: so maybe one should always send emails twice or maybe three times sm5383: irritate them nm5380: so so this this interaction with with Clayton Hudson continues and as i said i'll i'll wait if everybody's happy about that yeah we'll wait until the middle of the week sm5382: do you know if its the eight-one-oh-one or eight-one-oh-two thingy nm5380: er well sm5382: just to find out where it comes from nm5380: i was talking i was talking to to Peter about this and i think looking at the documentation myself on the on Metro Works website that it was going i-, the eight-one-oh-one is this only one that seems to have any valuation module which probably the cheaper thing sm5382: it is yeah nm5380: yeah so i think yeah if as i said in my email if if there was an eight- one-oh-two evaluation module yes please but if not we'll be very happy i i i'll make that point very strongly you know that we'll be happy with the eight-one- oh-one sm5382: and it's free nm5380: and could we have two of them please even though even though i was quite prepared to have one but Peter gave me this great sm5382: just push him sm5384: the guy did offer so nm5380: this great argument why we should have two so sm5384: make the most of it nm5380: in case we blow up one probably and then well we won't tell them that sm5384: as long as you don't let me near it and then it'll be fine sm5382: yeah apparently you've got previous on this sm5384: yes nm5380: oh really you didn't tell us that sm5384: you're ve-, ver-, i'm surprised Marina hasn't actually nf5381: don't let him anywhere near the equipment nm5380: is that right is he he blows things up does he sm5384: i don't know what happened nf5381: things happen to people heart attack nm5380: oh dear me su: its not proven is it sm5384: no its not proven yet i-, its not proven it was me yet nm5380: so i i think well you know i'm still confident i mean he was so positive on the telephone and Peter was there listen-, well not listening in but you could see the smile on my face sm5385: yeah nm5380: as i was talking to him and i thought you know tell me how much it costs and he said no we can we can send them to you for free er thankyou very much sm5383: would we get would we get administrative rights on a P-C in order to install the software as well sm5382: yes we'd need to nm5380: er which P-C do you mean sm5383: er any P-C in in engineering nm5380: ah y-, you mean one of ours rather than one of yours er well i think we'll worry about that when we get the boards i mean we can find a machine somewhere i'm sure nm5379: if you'll have it it would have to be installed but they'll come and if you got it then sm5382: i mean if it's a problem then we can put it on one of our systems nm5379: i think it could be installed and i'm sure come in and login and do it really just how they would with any other machine really if its just an installation nf5381: wanted too Mark Hughson and Adrian they su: i'm not quite certain nm5380: but that P-C its not quite so bad is it really nm5380: where where were you thinking of installing sm5382: do it ourselves yeah sm5383: well it it would be better if it was in in here just so that we could all have access to it at anytime just in case anybody went home or anything nm5380: er yeah well i mean there's ou-, our there's the research level on the way there we can probably fi-, we can probably find somewhere to put it in there we have to find a P-C first but sm5382: one thats not too old nm5380: one that's not too old yeah su: so that's an even bigger problem isnt it nm5380: but there is there is my old P-C which is in the room where my post-doc works that he used because the simulations he was doing were taking so long that he wanted a separate machine but we could probably borrow that its er its its not a very old machine but you know its not you know state of the art so to speak but a lot of the i mean its mostly C-programming that you're doing isnt it sm5382: yeah it is yeah sm5383: it will just be if there's any like testing software that's probably a bit more nm5380: yeah sm5383: testing it on the P-C nm5380: well we'll have to play it by ear i don't know if we've got enough money and it would take too long to buy a new computer we we really need to we we really need action on all of these things don't we because we're in week five this is the end of week five and er nm5379: well you could buy a new computer on the budget i never thought of that really sm5383: i can jog down to P-C World sm5384: i was going to say you can get one almost immediately can't you if you want one sm5383: that's if if we wanted one we could get one that day couldn't we sm5384: i mean we have to we have to sm5382: P-C World sm5383: maybe not P-C World nm5380: de-, desperation i think er su: if they've got them in stock a P-C is a P-C isn't it su: yes nm5380: no actually that's a good point nm5379: it would be a few hundred to get a desktop one state of the art is very cheap now isn't really sm5383: mm yeah nm5380: okay well we'll bear that in mind i mean we haven't beari-, if we get these boards for free i mean we haven't bear-, i mean that was going to be a cost su: yeah nm5380: but it looks like that cost is zero and the software will also be su: yeah struck gold here nm5380: can i sm5383: sorry go on nm5380: can i say can i ask about about th-, th-, the software do we have has some software been downloaded sm5383: we've got er the software but er we couldn't really we're not all-, we can't use it and we couldn't find any facilities er to enable us to use it sm5382: its only a thirty day license nm5380: oh i see i don't know whether we er sm5384: its a thirty day license so nm5380: oh right right su: and we've downloaded it nm5380: well hopefully within su: thirty days isn't that nm5380: well hopefully within thirty days we'll hear form Clayton and we'll get the acc-, we'll be able to then talk to and then su: then it won't matter nm5380: but i er i was really asking from the point of view of whether whether you'd been able to do anything with it thats the sm5385: no no basically no sm5383: i have been reading the C-book recently sm5385: yeah apart from sitting there looking at the documentation for it all which is somewhat daunting to say the least that's about it really nm5380: but i mean is it standard C or sm5383: its standard yes nm5380: oh right right sm5383: but looking at all the memories and the registers of the four core processes that the thing has is nm5380: well you would choose you would choose this sm5385: worrying nm5380: yeah i was reading up about this style its quite a its quite a sophisticated thing sm5385: yes it is nm5380: so are they four identical processors or or sm5385: it has four which can do things at the same time so sm5382: lets just hope sort it all out sm5385: so its four which can do the multiply accumulate stuff so nm5380: that's pretty stunning really isn't it on one chip this is on one chip quite amazing okay so tha-, that's one issue then er and then the other issue was the er er sorry er kinetic you know th-, th-, the simulation stuff su: oh yeah nm5380: and again you know i i i'm hoping you know Rob-, Robert is the guy the guy i know down there i mean he's he he he won't let us down but its a case of him getting round to it and i don't want to hassle him because i i;ve known him for a long time and i know he'll deliver and he knows the time scales and so on so i would hope to find a C-D in my post next week and hopefully it will be sm5382: we changed the software didn't we to so su: yeah sm5382: but we haven't had a chance to test it yet we just got it workign last night nm5380: that's great sm5382: but we just need to plug in the starting length frequencies and the length and what have you nm5380: well i i i'll give him a bit longer before i email him again i'll wait until the end of the week but as i say Clayton i'll try and contact in the middle of the week by telephone so i think that's probably as much as i can contribute this this week er er and i really haven't done anything because i've really been waiting for other people to sm5385: well yeah yeah so nm5380: well to return the favours so to speak sm5385: advanced nm5380: anyone else have any thoughts about it anything optics or nf5381: well i have found something that er i don't know how keen you are on it well i'm keen you know to do something about it but i don't know how much time you've got to do it su: stuff nf5381: er it's a very nice piece of work on er filters it's all there it says what diagram is there and er architectures there you see flow plan is there so i'm not asking you to copy it or anything just er to give it some thought you know see what we can do implementation side of things its from Stanford University its a fourth year project so it is students work and i don't know how good that work is but it it probably looks quite quite good and on that website if you go on the website they have also code for it as well so it could be something that you would like to have a look since you are looking at different options of so it might be worth sm5383: send everybody the er an email of the address sm5385: it's on the webpage nf5381: so i don't know who was looking was somebody looking at the implementation or was it sm5382: no no we've sort of er i think i think er put it on hold because it was just for the er poster but we do need to do a section on it for the report nf5381: mm sm5383: that would be good yeah nf5381: it would be nice if you do a sort i er i think it would if you have a look at it and see how how you can implement it and er sm5383: yeah nm5380: i don't feel there's enough material here to continue this you know to another unit maybe but nf5381: mm yeah nm5380: and there's some areas we haven't we haven't really given much er sm5382: shall shall we hang onto this nf5381: yes sure yes sure its for you i i mean er obviously five weeks isn't much time to er to design anything su: but nf5381: but it would be nice you know if you just explored sm5385: well for the technical section we were just sm5383: we were just going to put that lot in there sm5384: about all the different types of things and possibilities of continuing in different directions so that's easily sm5382: yeah so we'll talk about each each way we could have gone and then er sm5383: so we could easily do something like that nf5381: well you would have to put a section on all of them and then justify why you have decided to what are the reasons behind behind the chosen path whatever sm5382: the other thing which we never talk about yet is the er front end of it like what program er we we'd actually use to communicate by the serial port because remember a little while ago we were thinking that we'd need say er tha-, that it would just have to be a simple window really that that that took in the er message of the chip sm5384: for the development board sm5382: yeah but we'd need something that could really go with the chip so its maybe something that the chip that does this is sm5383: er er if we're talking about the er development board er it will probably have a er program with it sm5382: er yeah but if we're talking about if you want this to be a standard line program sm5383: er and and run it to another P-C it might only have that one er one serial port connection to it an-, and that's the programming board sm5385: i i think you use the parallel port to sm5383: yeah it would be the parallel port sm5385: communicate to it nm5380: i'm not quite clear i'm not quite clear what what you're saying i mean y-, obviously in a real situation er if if if this particular detection system was install-, was implemented on a D-S-P processor obviously it would be part of a lot more hardware su: mm nm5380: and clearly we haven't got the time to to look at all all the ramifications of that but i would have thought as Ian was saying that er this the evaluation module will give us everything we need for interaction between it and the host processor sm5382: right are we just going to er leave it at that because er nm5380: well clearly if we get the i mean we really need to get hold of that as soon as possible don't we and if we get it hopefully it'd be next week sm5383: i think we tackle the situation when we get to it sm5385: i mean you can you can run it connect it up to your P-C so you can help debug it so you can you can have the processor running and it communicates the to your programs so you can see what's going on in each register nm5380: indeed indeed i-, i-, if it if its like certainly if its like things i've used in the past yeah you can mod-, er you can downlo-, i mean you can develop the software on the er on the host processor and then you know when you're happy with it you download it i don't know whether there are simulation tools or what i'm not certain or whether you have to just download it to the co- , you know the star core and then run it on the star core but the question is where the data is coming from again i'm presuming that the data will be on the host processor and that it will be downloaded to the star-core D-S-P su: well that's another sm5385: coefficients should be stored on the er on the chip right sm5382: yeah but the input wave whether that would be necessarily sent to it via a serial port or whether there are other ports on the sm5383: you couldn't er program it and send it using the same interface sm5382: er yeah i'm i'm assuming you could sm5383: in the end we could just like create a er er maybe stream a file of of coefficients for er simulated waves er su: do we have an er an on it su: yeah i i'd assume so nm5380: sorry sorry on evaluation module sm5382: er i yeah i suppose yeah sm5383: it-, its bound to if it's a D-S-P chip sm5385: well n-, not necessarily sm5382: i don't know nm5380: yeah i mean i i we're talking a bit vaguely i suppose because we don't really we don't have that information but er some certainly the ones i've used the T-I ones were designed you know they had A to B and D to A built in so that you could put signals in from outside but th-, this is quite a sophisticated beast and i would suspect that the data would have to come from the core pr-, th-, the host processor sm5383: yeah nm5380: you can't just sort of have two co-, you know B and C sockets co-axial sockets or something to put to put data in its but again i'm i'm only talking from experience and its somewhat limited to the age of some of my books sm5385: i think we just keep it as sm5383: we don't need to worry about it but i think it will happen sm5382: but i mean if its going to be if its going to be used in real life then it would have to take in a signal from er er microphone or or you could go for sm5383: if if it was to be used in real life it probably wouldn't be used in this chip at all it would probably be used in the most advanced er er chip which is probably about er er using it with a lot of other hardware as well sm5382: the eight-one-oh-four sm5385: the next one up from what we're using nm5380: er er sorry what you're suggesting we wouldn't be using this type a D-S- P processor sm5383: we'd be using a D-S-P processor but i think we'd be using quite er other things as well nm5380: of course of course sm5383: like er C-P-Us and er maybe a maybe a whole er hardware setup nm5380: yeah i think i think i think i think we sh-, personally i think we shouldn't worry too much about that you know the you know actually commissioning a piece of equipment you know for whatever application whether its you know maritime or military or or whatever it's a it's a big job and you know i've been down to Kinetic and and they have racks of equipment sm5383: yeah i've seen like er that on ships the computer the computer er just sort of one radar fill up massive rooms nm5380: yes yeah yeah nm5379: so we argue it's a proof of principle isn't it nf5381: well there it works and you could scale it up using state of the art su: nm5380: well it would be incorporated into a bigger whole anyway this is this is this is this is a small but significant part of a particular application in sonar so i don't i don't think we should we should worry too much about that but what we should be concerned about it obviously doing getting a realistic simulation well but not exactly simulation because we're using a real processor but getting the data to the processor and getting the data back so that we can have a look at it and i would presume well i haven't obviously seen any details about this that that that this would not be a problem otherwise how would its called an evaluation module sm5385: its not the computer would talk to it nm5380: yeah yeah yeah i mean its an evaluation module in order to evaluate the processors so sm5385: C code just stitch in one value sm5382: and it would send er send a discreet signal sm5385: yeah sm5382: through the chip sm5385: yeah nm5380: is it is it possible to get more information about the eight-one-oh-one or er sm5385: well i've been looking on their on their website i've got a got a load of information on the on the sort of the core that it uses and so on but i haven't really i haven't really figured how you sort of how you start programming it and sm5383: i think its hard to realise that sort of thing until you actually get it in front of you sm5385: yeah nm5380: yeah sm5385: because its about certainly the information on the core is about eight- hundred odd pages long nm5380: really sm5385: er tons of registers to look at sm5383: but if you read it all it would be totally irrelevant to what our what we're wanting to do i would have thought so nm5379: okay sm5385: it starts off interesting and then nm5380: it gets very tedious sm5385: and you sort of start thinking well i'll miss that one and er nm5380: but surely surely that's the advantage of writing in C though isn't it that the the th-, you know that the cross assembler is taking the C-code which is written in a you know independent code and it will then be mapped onto the processor by their software so as far as use of register we hope that the that their cr-, cross-assembler uses uses the registers in an efficient way and hopefully the work will be done for us sm5383: hopefully a lot of the work will be done for us sm5385: but we still need to know the functions nm5380: yeah but you want some built-in D-S-P functions sm5383: yeah and if they're well written then it shouldn't be too difficult to do it su: well yeah yes because there's something nm5380: there's a lot of trust here isn't there nm5379: yes actually just the year the year before you were first years they still had this difficult interfacing lab so you would have actually had some experience it was far too difficult for first years it was one of the first things i got given when i came here was there used to be a lab where you did this kind of thing with a processor wasn't it i-, i-, i-, in F-two-eleven er where you could see that you wrote some assembler and it was hard work and then there was a C and it was compiled so sm5384: we had to do that in C-S nm5379: did you so you still so you still u-, have done sm5384: it was a real pain sm5382: we still do that nm5379: you've done that yes so it's a bit like just a grander version of that but it's the same thing as if the students were given a a very small part of the manual because that was really all that was relevant to what they were doing to what they were doing they were playing with certain registers there's a much thicker manual whichever it was probably something like this and gave them this much and that was still too much for a first year lab if you want to bottom out they couldn't fathom it at all you know the the various the the i think there was only two accumulators and it wasn't a very complicated chip or anything but that was still too much for people to take on board so you weren't going very far reading it nm5380: yeah but i i i don't think one's sort of expecting expecting you to get to grips with the instruction set for a processor like this i mean that's the whole beauty of using a high-level language that we that we use their expertise basically to map it onto the processor i mean clearly if you were if you were trying to do a very optimised design you might want to try and get into the innards of the process to try and cu-, cut down the time sm5383: cut down all of the things that we're not using functions nm5379: it's a bit like the cu-, you know whether you if in C-S whether you write your own compiler isn't i y-, you know you're happy to use a compiler not reinvent the wheel so it's a bit like that you say well you don't know everything that goes on do you you're happy to use Windows on top of something you don't know you don't want to write your own nm5380: we're not happy to use Windows nm5379: no what i mean is that you have a choice we don't write our own operating system for the computer so you say oh i want to write my own operating system my own language because that's then i know everything about it you just have to live with it i suppose you don't know every fine detail really nm5380: mm mm nm5379: ve-, very few people do have time to go through that you just have to trust that they've done their job without major bugs so that nm5380: mm indeed well i think i think Motorola have been in the business for a a good many years so and they and they you know and this is the latest generation of many generations of processors sm5382: so do you think they'll er er if we have a a lot of multiplications to perform supposedly running at the same time that they'll er automate as it were between the four er was it four multiply accumulators sm5385: four cores yes so you can only have sm5382: do you reckon that would would the compilers alternate would you guess nm5380: well i mean a gu-, a guess is what you're asking me for there sm5382: yeah nm5380: i don't i don't i don't know how you map you know i mean well basically you've got a parallel processor haven't you effectively sm5382: mm nm5380: er i mean it may well be that that for you know practical designs you might not just have one of these you may have several of them i mean maybe you'd have f-, you'd have four of them and then you'd have sixteen or however many you need you could have an F-R filter running in parallel on on each processor but er i i don't know but that that would come into the programming i would have thought and i don't know if you've ha-, somebody's looked at the C sm5385: i haven-, i haven't been able to find the actual C code that you that's all nm5380: oh right i thought maybe but are there not any examples that you can just see how you know how closely it resemb-, whether there may be special features that mightn't it sm5385: mm there are yeah we looked at an example yesterday sm5382: there was one project with flash gear L-E-Ds and stuff sm5385: yeah nm5380: okay er how how are we doing we've covered we've covered quite a lot of different things er doe-, does anyone want to say anything particular Cory or or Ian or nm5379: no nm5380: the short answer yes okay i don't think i've got any-, anything more to add er you know obvious-, obviously we're sort of waiting a bit are-, aren't we we're waiting we want to move on but until we get this other material nf5381: it would be nice to get on with some of the stuff that you need for your report while we're waiting for this equipment to arrive su: true get it a bit sorted out nm5380: yes that would seem very sensible actually very sensible sm5385: we will get cracking on that nm5380: okay sm5384: we've got a lot of information already to write up so nm5380: and of course there will be presentation as well er at some point sm5384: it's week twenty-three or something like that i think or twenty-two nm5380: is that right er sm5385: that's the least of our worries at the moment nm5379: a repr-, a report presentation to last thirty minutes sm5382: week twenty-three nm5380: plus twenty minutes for questions nm5379: yeah nm5380: all group must members must be present sm5382: is that up to you guys nm5380: pardon nm5379: its not up to us i don't think nf5381: yeah there will be a there will be another nm5380: is it any of us nf5381: second assessor plus moderator i think nm5379: its not us sm5382: what and you guys as well nm5380: well probably probably the guys who were at your poster presentation it will probably be at least two people sm5382: oh so they do all of it i mean that was Godfrey and Tardy wasn't it nm5380: well it won't nf5381: it won't be Tardy nm5380: it won't be tardy because he's on study leave but certainly it'll er be Keith Godfrey yeah it'll be him and somebody else i don't know who but yeah the- , i'm sure those two tho-, th-, you know there'll be those two or except of course as i said Tardy's on study leave who will be at the presentation nm5379: in week twenty-three isn't it yeah nf5381: mm nm5379: assess-, assess-, assessors nm5380: we we do some assessment nm5379: yeah so its not directed is it nm5380: and obviously we are also part of the project to some extent nm5379: so its not the not the directors and the group oral it's the assessors we won't be at the presentation because its the nf5381: well we can be there but its assessors that will be asking questions nm5379: the pos-, because the poster was the director and assessor i mean like obviously i had a look at it and gave a mark when you were off with your nm5380: when i was off with my arm nm5379: with your broken wrist er er so its specifically said sm5384: did you actually get any feedback from that about marks because i know some groups actually did get feedback from how that went but nm5379: er well are we not i mean you're happy i mean you know what i what i put down first class marks as far as i was concerned su: i'm not going to complain nm5379: but i don't know what i don't know what er the other i haven't officially had any report back on that from the other from the other as far as i was concerned it looked very good so if you were saying that they were marking all of them highly because they're all nm5380: i think i think i did comment i did comment to somebody what i thought nm5379: question really but nm5380: i have see-, i have seen i have seen something nm5379: because you would probably see it because you're listed as the official director so i don't always get the stuff you know official stuff to me nm5380: but i was in but i was out of action wasn't i though nm5379: so it didn't go maybe it didn't go to anybody i'll ask namexi'll ask namex nm5380: there was there was no the-, there was feedback that's right and perhaps we should've we should've discussed this er from one from one of the assessors who i think i mean may-, maybe er the prob-, there was a problem of lack of understanding i think from his point of view sm5385: yeah yes that was obvious nm5380: yeah about the er i i i i had a feeling we'd discussed this but may-, maybe not nm5379: i i think we've i think we've said something about it yeah nm5380: in rela-, in relation to he couldn't see that this was a wavele-, that this was really wavelengths nm5379: it was about transform wasn't it he said that he couldn't see nm5380: he couldn't see where the wavelength transform came in to it so er i mean probably he was confused by something in the presentation i mean i wasn't there so i can't comment but sm5382: it was the er it was the er graphs you know the three-D graphs in MatLab and i was saying that it was a continuous wavelength transform and he said it wasn't sm5385: and you thought it was nm5380: yeah i think i think i have actually spoken to him since this sin-, sin- , since the your presentation er pointing out why i believed it was a well i mean we know its we know it's a wave that transforms so i think probably it was just a feeling that he got on the day and that there wasn't anybody there to help him through this problem and so he he he was he then he he he then gained the impression that that this was not a wavelength transformer sm5382: he's been doing so well that the the er the one with the high pass low pass filters ones where you just er keep doing the low pass ones you know do images nm5380: the disc-, you mean the discreet wavelength transform yes sm5382: well i don't know why but he er that's what he's lectured me on it before so i don't know whether that's what he does but then he nm5379: i think that nm5380: i don't know i don't know if he actually uses a discrete wavelength transform for that i i i i've tended to use it for image compression er T-, Tardy doesn't his interests are in other areas of image sm5382: in D-S-P i think i thought he lectured me on that nm5380: on no its g-, its g-, this sm5382: er he did it last year nm5380: last year right sm5382: in D-S-P because he did the second half of the course nm5380: the-, there certainly is some image compression in that D-S-P course okay well i think we've drifted off a bit there but anyway er so were there any oth-, any other comments on optical or not been any developments in that sm5384: there's masses of information just being written up at the moment er nm5380: right sm5384: i've er you know i think James i can't ac-, James was supposed to be giving you a list of some like some inter-library loans but i'm not sure if we actually need to do that or not do you happen to nm5380: no sm5384: ah ok nm5380: but it may it may be on the website but i haven't looked at it i must admit this week so sm5384: oh right okay nm5380: yeah sm5384: er i think he was unless he's ch-, ch-, looked at them and then changed his mind and decided they weren't worth it or not but as i say he's not here so i can't really ask him at the moment but er its mainly just write up at the moment of what we've got nm5380: are people are still putting putting stuff onto the onto the M-Eng website sm5384: yeah i think yes i think so sm5384: i haven't put anything up for a while sm5384: Ja-, i think James James has put a few things on it i'm sure he has we're slow-, slowly getting through and we have this to do as well so we'll have some more to write up nm5379: yeah i think there's no problem with with plenty to write about sm5385: yeah there's quite a lot nm5379: you know emphasising the option of of and how the principle was proved really i think sm5384: its more being selective of what's more ne-, or what's sort of worthy of the project rather than what's sort of vaguely relevant sort of thing so sifting through a lot of it is the main thing at the moment nm5380: indeed indeed okay any other sm5382: i don't think so i think this pretty much covers most of it sm5383: just send an email out when it arrives or nm5380: i will as i've said the minute the minute i get any information i'll be onto my computer wherever i am sm5385: we'll have to sort the software out as well i mean that shouldn't take too long i take it nm5380: i would have though not its just i'm sure you can download the software but we need to have presumably we need him to contact Metroworks or something to tell them sm5382: shall we meet on Tuesday are you here at all sm5385: yeah nm5380: does anyone else have nm5379: no i think i think we've er nm5380: okay good nm5379: got there sm5384: are you away again next Friday its nm5380: er no not next Friday the Friday after sm5382: the twentieth the er er I-S-Ps cancelled isn't it nm5380: that's right yes sm5382: so is it that day sm5383: i can't do next Friday so nm5380: we don't have to meet on a sm5384: next nm5380: next next Friday su: but that's i don't think we have anything major nf5381: i cant come next Friday i go to nm5380: do we have to i mean could we meet on another day or i mean its obviously good to get most people to come well i me-, a-, all people to come really but sm5384: if we wait for James we could send an email to him nm5379: i was wondering if you could agree a ti-, you know nm5380: okay well we we we use email anyway but er we-, we'll have a meeting next Friday though yeah su: yeah yeah nf5381: i can't do next Friday but er nm5380: you can't su: i can't no i can't either su: we could draw up a timetable sm5382: we could say what about Thursday afternoon su: i can't sm5384: there's always Wednesday afternoon nm5380: that's a good idea circu-, circulate something round nm5379: the problem with Wednesdays is that that you lose us in term to open days and things er thats its sm5385: i'm in a school and have sessions Wednesday afternoons so i'm not around so sm5382: what about Thursday afternoons sm5384: lets let Ian sort it out well i'll just send some emails and say some times nm5380: Thursday's afternoon's okay for me i i mean i normally see my project students but i i can always reorganise and see them on Friday instead su: okay sm5382: till one for the second half of the week i've got lectures nm5380: okay it could be Thursday sm5385: Thursday's two o'clock onwards sm5382: Thursday two is fine nm5380: is that alright nm5379: for next Thursday yeah su: yeah yeah we we er s-, send the email round and check with James nm5379: because i tended to book the room that's the only danger it might have to be somewhere else if if there's an open day because of course they have the priority on this room so i mean Tuesday until Thursday this week we could be in another room nm5380: well we'll try and plan it for Thursday we don't need this room do we nm5379: no no nm5380: i mean we only occupy a a small part of it nm5379: its just easy its just a nice place to sit isn't it because its got the nice-, the nicest chairs in the department nm5380: so you you're going to deal with the nm5379: yeah yeah Thursday nm5380: to deal with the booking nm5379: yeah i'll book a room nm5380: okay good over and out then or nf5381: nm5380: over and out then over and out su: i think so yeah su: yeah nm5380: okay then