nm0360: are we all ready to to get started [0.5] cou-, could i just [0.3] ask 
namex just to come forward to the front just for a second if that's [0.5] all 
right [2.5] er could i just bring namex to the front 
nf0361: [0.2] 
nm0360: namex is the secretary of our [0.2] department and i just wanted to say 
a big thank you to namex because [0.8] without today it wouldn't have happened 
she's organized everything from you to be here [0.4] the food [0.3] the lunch 
[0.3] the coffee [0.3] just to say thank you very much we're [0.2] very 
grateful [5.5] and thank you to everybody who's come today and [0.4] er shared 
in the day [0.5] particularly for representatives from both namex and er [0.5] 
namex Universities [0.4] we've been grateful for for the interaction and 
hopefully some [0.3] collaborative initiatives [0.5] will will come from today 
[0.8] i want to introduce you to our last speaker namex [0.7] i said that a lot 
of wonderful work had come out of the academic training 
scheme for G-P registrars [0.4] namex used to be [0.3] an academic G-P 
registrar [0.3] here at namex [0.3] but she's gone on to great [0.2] greater 
things now and is a lecturer [0.3] here in general practice within our 
undergraduate Department of General Practice [0.6] but the project that she's 
been [0.4] working on is [0.2] personal development [0.3] plans in the 
postgraduate side of [0.5] of primary care [0.4] and [0.2] she's going to sh-, 
[0.2] share that with us now [0.4] thanks very much 
nf0362: thanks namex [2.1] er [0.2] normally when you give a lecture you 
usually [0.2] check that people can hear okay but i think it's probably more 
important that [0.2] people can actually see me over the lectern [1.5] 
[laughter] er as namex said i used to be namex [0.7] but namex employ far 
better looking registrars [0.6] than namex [0.6] and er i came here as an 
academic G-P registrar [0.4] er it's probably about a year ago eighteen months 
ago now [0.7] and was very interested in 
education [0.8] especially for postgraduates [0.5] and looked very much into 
personal development plans for G-Ps [0.3] in the area and that's where my sort 
of [0.5] area of research lay [1.0] er [0.2] i was very aware when i was asked 
to talk that A this was an u-, undergraduate [0.5] research symposium [0.4] er 
and that not everybody here would be a G-P [0.3] and i didn't know how 
interesting my research would be to people [0.6] so what i thought i'd do [2.0] 
is this basically [0.3] discuss the history of portfolios where they've come 
from [0.8] er [0.2] different methods of using portfolios [0.3] in different [0.
3] er career areas especially medicine really [0.3] and i apologize to those 
people that aren't from medical backgrounds [1.1] obviously when discussing 
portfolios we do need to bring in an element of reflection [0.9] er [0.2] so 
i'm going to discuss that as well [0.4] and then finally move on to the 
problems and the benefits of using portfolios in medicine [0.3] and then i can 
touch on my research if [0.7] anyone's desperate to go home at that point [2.1] 
right [0.6] so [1.0] er i wanted everyone to think of something that 
reminds them of [0.3] Italy [1.4] er [0.3] it may seem a bit of a strange 
question [0.9] er i thought of a few myself [0.7] obviously food came first [1.
2] er [0.9] basically the reason why i put this slide in [0.5] is the word 
portfolio actually originates from Italy [1.1] er it started in the eighteenth 
century [0.7] and it can be split into two components and i apologize for 
pronunciation as i don't speak Italian [0.5] but the first is portare [0.6] 
which is to carry [0.8] and the second is folio [0.4] which i'm sh-, er sure 
there is a proper Italian pronuncation for that [0.3] meaning leaf or sheet [0.
9] and so really [0.2] in its basic basic er meaning [0.7] portfolio means a 
case for carrying loose sheets of paper [0.9] and obviously [0.4] in the 
artistic world that [0.5] definition still carries and often you see people 
going for job interviews with their big portfolios [1.0] er containing all 
their leash-, [0.3] loose sheets [0.5] of artwork they they've done [1.6] 
basically since this time the definition and the word portfolio has been picked 
up by lots of 
different er occupations [0.5] the commonest one's the government [0.8] er they 
basically have developed the word portfolio to mean a case containing official 
documents for certain departments within the government [0.6] and that's led to 
job descriptions such as Minister with Portfolio [0.3] and Ministers without 
Portfolio for those people that do have the responsibilities for looking after 
these cases of documents [1.7] in the N-H-S or in the educational field in 
general [0.9] er the definition of portfolio has really taken on two main [0.2] 
areas [0.9] and that's what i'm going to discuss today [1.0] starting with the 
first one of a scrapbook [0.7] a very basic definition [0.6] er [0.7] it's a 
collection of written material or evidence of skills [0.4] er a person 
possesses [1.4] basically y-, years and years ago what used to happen is you 
used to finish school [0.5] used to go and get a job down the road where you'd 
stay really until you retired you'd get married have two children [1.2] et 
cetera et cetera things have changed very much so [0.7] we're now 
expected to do [0.2] extra qualifications we're expected to actively move round 
get different jobs different experiences [0.5] even specialize in different 
specific areas within the occupation that we've actually chosen [1.5] obviously 
we need to demonstrate to people the expertise and experience that we have [0.
4] so what we use [0.7] are best doing is collecting certificates [0.4] 
evidence of work that we've done [0.8] er [0.2] in order to prove where we've 
been [2.4] er couple of people that looked into [0.3] scrapbook type portfolios 
was Pendleton and Hasler [1.0] basically they should said that you should be as 
imaginative as you can be [0.2] with your portfolios put in anything you think 
of [0.6] so that includes videotapes now [0.4] audits research as we've been 
discussing today [0.3] everything to prove [0.2] where you've been and what 
you've been doing [0.7] since you sat [0.2] your first basic exams [3.9] right 
so if we go back to the previous one [1.2] portfolios can also be used as 
educational tools [0.5] er and that's really what i'm going to concentrate on 
more now 
because it's what [0.3] the government want us to do and what's being used most 
in the field of continuing medical education [1.2] basically using portfolios 
[0.2] as an educational tool you start with your basic scrapbook [0.6] but you 
add in the additional dimension of reflection [0.5] and reflective learning [2.
2] so what is reflection [1.5] er here's a definition by [0.3] Brown [1.2] 
basically if we think of reflection [0.3] it throws up images of mirrors [0.4] 
and seeing ourselves how other people see us [0.8] er in education this extends 
to visualizing or thinking about experiences that we've had courses we've been 
on [0.4] making sense of them and perhaps seeing them in a different way or a 
constructive way [1.2] er we've all got the ability to look at things we do and 
make changes to how we do those things in the future [0.6] er [0.3] even from 
when we're born [0.3] if you think of a small child who puts their hand on a 
hot radiator [0.4] they soon learn that [0.2] it's best not to do that again [0.
6] er [0.4] and that's really reflection in its very basic form [1.4] it's been 
a 
topic of interest really to lots of educational writers [0.4] er [0.6] probably 
one of the most famous ones is John Dewey [0.7] as you can see by the black and 
white photo [0.5] he was born in eighteen-fifty-nine [0.7] he actually became 
head of Philosophy and Psychology in s-, Chicago [1.2] er and his main interest 
really lay in educational systems in different countries [0.4] and he actually 
did considering the year that he was born did quite a lot of travelling to 
different countries looking at the educational systems that [0.4] were growing 
in each country [1.4] he also felt that education resulted in people fitting 
reacting in different ways and fitting into different niches within society and 
taking on different roles within society [0.4] and he felt that was all 
educational based [1.4] er he basically described two main types of learning [1.
3] the first was trial and error [0.6] type learning [0.8] er he felt [0.3] 
that skills could be developed [0.5] after [0.5] practising a task over and 
over again resert-, [0.2] resulting in a more of a learned behaviour [1.0] er 
that could be used in just special circumstances only [0.5] the commonest one 
is [0.2] if someone came to you and said [0.3] how do you ride a bike [1.3] er 
we all know how to ride a bike [0.4] we've all practised it when we were [0.2] 
children with stabilizers and [0.3] we now know how to ride a bike but try and 
describe that to someone it's very very difficult w-, because it's a learned 
behaviour [1.3] he also felt there was a second type of learning [0.4] and that 
was reflective learning [1.0] he where information and feedback from previous 
experiences [0.5] could then be used to draw conclusions which if ever you came 
across that experience again [0.3] could be used [0.5] er [0.3] and basically 
he [0.2] fi-, was the first one to introduce the concept of learning cycles [0.
7] and learning loops [0.8] where conclusions from previous experiences could 
be fed back [0.5] and used to manipulate [0.3] the experience when you [0.3] 
have it again [2.6] he's [0.2] very well known for something called his 
pedagogic creed [0.6] and i just put that in [0.3] really for the people who 
are interested in education 
the Master's students in education [0.4] and as he said he felt education began 
unconsciously at birth [0.5] and went throughout life and shaped that 
individual [0.4] and it's that that fitted them into a certain area and 
function in society [3.4] so after [0.4] Dewey had [0.2] had developed this 
learning loop David Kolb and i don't think that's the most flattering photo 
that i found of him [laughter] [0.4] er [0.6] he was another educationalist [0.
6] and he was Professor of Organizational Behaviour [0.9] and he had a special 
interest not just in the way that people fitted into social society [0.4] due 
to their education he felt [0.3] that due to your education [0.4] that made you 
more likely [0.2] to pick specific careers [0.3] and fit within certain 
organizations [0.2] and often meant [0.5] er that's where people ended up 
working [1.3] in nineteen-seventy-one he joined together with [0.2] Rubin and 
McIntyre who were also interested in education [0.4] and 
developed Dewey's [0.3] learning loop a bit further [2.2] they produced this [1.
7] and it's well known as [0.4] Kolb's [0.3] loop [1.7] he felt that a learner 
had to be competent in all of these different areas [0.5] er and stated the 
cycle in order for to be an effective learner [0.3] the whole cycle had to keep 
turning [0.9] and [0.2] if a person was inadequate in any of the areas they 
were just unable to learn at all [4.0] so moving on to [0.2] from this [0.4] er 
the final person that i'm going to talk about today is Donald Schon [0.8] he's 
also well known er [0.2] for his techniques of reflection [1.2] he like Kolb 
was very interested in individuals and the way they functioned within their 
working organizations and their working environment [1.2] he really wasn't that 
interested in Kolb's [0.2] cycle [0.7] he wan-, went back to Dewey's original 
concept of the fact of [0.2] er task learning [0.5] and reflective type 
learning [0.8] he felt that er Dewey had got it slightly wrong [0.6] and 
instead of being two different ways of learning that [0.2] it was actually one 
type of learning [0.7] and that [0.3] people 
actually performed a task [1.0] and then while they were performing that task 
[0.4] they were able to reflect [0.6] er think about what they were doing [0.2] 
and make alterations to their behaviour during the time that they were doing 
that [0.9] he also felt that [0.7] people were also able after they'd [0.4] 
finished the task to look back [0.6] and think about what they'd actually done 
[1.8] from this he developed these [0.3] three terms [0.8] reflection in action 
[0.3] is where you're doing a task and you actually think about what you're 
doing at the time [0.3] and you can alter and modify your behaviour accordingly 
[0.8] reflection on action [0.5] he felt was the ability to look back at what 
had happened [0.3] and again [0.2] make changes for the future [0.5] and both 
of those came together [0.2] in order to provide individuals that had a 
knowledge in action [0.5] so they're able to perform both these tasks [0.5] in 
order [0.2] to perform a function [2.0] it's quite complicated and i think the 
easiest way for me to describe it and again i apologize to the m-, non-medical 
ones [0.3] people here [0.7] is [0.7] someone taking 
out an appendix [1.0] if a surgeon goes in and takes out an appendix there is 
the typical way [0.3] of an appendicectomy if you read the textbook it's the 
sheet make the incision here [0.3] find the appendix here [0.3] remove it as 
such [1.3] if the surgeon goes in and the appendix is in a slightly different 
position [0.5] for example behind the secum [0.5] then the whole process has to 
be modified the surgeon has to look somewhere else for the appendix [0.3] take 
it out in a slightly different way [0.3] extend the scar slightly [0.3] and 
that's reflection in action the surgeon has seen while he's doing a function [0.
8] that modifications need to be made [1.4] afterwards [0.2] when the surgeon's 
stitched up and he's sitting down having his cup of coffee [0.3] he can 
actually think [0.2] about that patient [0.4] was there any clues [0.2] when he 
took the history from the patient [0.3] on examining the patient [0.4] that he 
wasn't going to find a typical appendix when he went in there [1.9] if he does 
find evidence that there were some differences [0.4] he 
can actually use that information in the future to be more prepared [0.5] for 
the next operation that he comes across and that's more of a reflection [0.4] 
on action [5.8] right so basically reflection's a very complex process [0.5] 
there's diferent influences that reflect [0.5] what we er [1.3] take home [1.2] 
and basically what we choose [0.5] to take from a situation depends on our 
personal aspirations [0.4] our past experiences [0.6] and where we feel our 
personal needs or inadequacies lie [1.5] er [0.3] and all of these result in 
modifications hopefully in our behaviour [1.7] going back to the internal and 
external influences [1.0] if you provide [0.3] a group of delegates with the 
same lecture [0.3] and provide them with a sheet [0.3] where they're able to 
write home one take-home message [0.7] the take-home message probably will be 
very different for everybody in the room [0.8] er that's because each of us [0.
7] will find part of the talk slightly more interesting than another depending 
on our experiences [0.6] er and that's really [0.4] the element of the 
internal and external influences on reflection [2.1] so what we need to do now 
is put all those [0.5] all that information about reflection back into the use 
of portfolios [1.0] so if we return to our scrapbook [0.7] what we're doing now 
is we're using our reflective techniques to look at each learning experience 
that we've had so [0.3] as we mentioned before the scrapbooks can be full of 
certificates and achievements [1.0] so [0.3] when you came today [0.6] er you 
might have thought oh well i might have a certificate at the end of the day 
that i can put in my scrapbook and people will see that i've been to this 
interesting course at namex [1.0] er however if we're going to use [0.2] that 
to reflect [0.9] hopefully some people after they look at that certificate will 
think [0.7] oh i know a bit more about education now [0.4] or [0.7] i know 
perhaps that i'm inadequate in knowledge in this area of education and i'll go 
and find out more [1.1] some people [0.2] might have just come [0.6] and 
actually found out where namex is and that it's actually got a medical school 
in the first place [0.8] er that's another learning experience [0.8] some 
people [0.3] might have sat next to someone [0.3] at lunch [0.4] who's a P-C-T 
tutor [0.5] after they started chatting to them [0.6] and think gosh i've no 
idea what that is [0.5] and then go away [0.3] and actually look that up [0.9] 
so a-, got absolutely nothing to do with the course [0.4] but it's a learning 
opportunity [0.5] er [0.2] that has been picked up on reflecting just on that 
certificate or the course today so it's not just a scrapbook [0.5] it's an 
actual reflection [1.5] er [1.0] right [0.5] so it's not just courses that we 
can use as learning experiences [0.7] er lots of different things out there [0.
4] there's feedback from colleagues [0.3] or patients [0.7] for the students 
here today trying to get all this back to an undergraduate level [0.3] there's 
the use of simulated patients which give very useful feedback [0.4] there's 
patients that they come across on the wards [0.2] or in G-P practices [1.0] 
there's so many opportunities f-, [0.3] for learning and reflection [0.4] that 
often it sort of 
goes in one ear and out the other 'cause we're busy doing something else at the 
same time [1.0] so what we suggest people do is keep a log diary [0.4] that's 
just a to do list [0.3] for want of a better word [0.4] er [0.9] and basically 
[0.3] all that you do is you write down the topic or areas [0.4] er that you 
thought ooh hang on a minute i should really go and look that up [0.7] er [1.0] 
and you know it's there it's somewhere safe that you can come back to it and 
look at it [0.3] at a time that's convenient [0.4] when you've got the time to 
look further into it [1.2] really what [0.2] that is is the basis of a personal 
development plan [0.3] a personal development plan is a log diary [0.2] I-E a 
to do list [0.4] but with the added dimension of actually a list of how you aim 
to achieve [0.7] those needs [0.7] and a final section [0.3] on [0.4] 
reflection again because it's a cycle [0.5] shar-, saying how you have achieved 
those needs [0.6] or whether you have achieved those needs [1.7] basically [0.
2] the whole of this is [0.2] due to reflection [0.5] and self-direction [1.5] 
so if we come back now to portfolios in 
the N-H-S and this is where my interest is [0.7] is basically at the moment [1.
0] G-Ps that [0.3] to keep up to date it's suggested that they go [0.5] and 
attend lectures [0.2] and collect points [0.8] er once they've collected thirty 
points thanks very much pat on the back [0.3] money from the government right 
you're keeping up to date [0.7] er [0.4] unfortunately it's been proven that 
this system [0.2] of continuing medical education is failing [0.4] G-Ps are 
going [0.3] to near-, the n-, lectures that are nearest by [0.4] they're going 
to [0.2] the lectures that are free to attend [0.5] they're going to lectures 
[0.2] which interest them [0.4] great [0.2] but they're probably already 
exceptionally good at family planning [0.3] and they're going to more family 
planning lectures [0.3] while they know nothing about rheumatology [0.6] so 
they're becoming very non-directed [0.9] more and more evidence is coming out 
and s-, sure everyone knows that didactic lectures [0.2] really [0.4] are not 
perhaps the best way of learning for everybody [1.0] also the G-Ps aren't 
providing any evidence of their learning [0.6] er which 
the government aren't happy with [0.7] er [0.6] so they are keen [0.3] for a 
new system [1.2] er [0.7] to come about [1.7] basically Mathers [0.5] who i 
think [0.2] er is based in Sheffield [0.4] did some research [0.4] where he 
looked at portfolio learning and compared it to the old system of G-P learning 
and this point collecting exercise [0.5] he did a crossover trial where for six 
months half the G-Ps [0.4] did the old-fashioned type of learning [0.6] and for 
the next six months the G-Ps did the newer type portfolio self-directed 
learning [0.6] and basically the feedback and the outcomes were very good [0.9] 
the G-Ps enjoyed greater flexibility [0.4] er of using portfolios and picking 
things that were of interest to them [0.5] they enjoyed the breadth of the 
topics which far excelled the local lectures that were being provided [0.9] er 
but they did admit that more time [0.3] and commitment was needed [0.4] so 
therefore [0.3] i thought i'd put up this [0.2] final slide saying that [0.5] 
even though i'm very much for it and have researched it [0.5] there are some 
negative points to portfolio learning [0.9] er 
the two in brackets [0.3] really aren't applicable to undergraduates [0.5] er 
they're more applicable to my area of interest which is G-Ps [0.5] basically [0.
2] the old system and the new system [0.2] of continuing education are running 
alongside [0.5] which is [0.3] where the confusion's arising [0.8] er [0.7] but 
basically [0.2] most people are still uncertain about portfolios and reflection 
and the way that you can learn from them [0.4] er [0.4] well obviously it's [0.
3] relatively straightforward [0.3] i think once people have run with it for a 
little while they'll feel more confident [0.4] and get more out of it [1.6] and 
so i'm more than happy to answer any questions on portfolios or if anybody 
wants to know any more about my research then i'm happy to discuss that as well 
[7.0] 
nm0360: any questions at all [2.0] 
nm0363: how do you control the level of reflecting [0.2] when you do portfolio 
learning [0.4] as you illustrated i could be [0.2] just reflecting i met a a 
dental colleague [0.5] and that will be on my portfolio 
nf0362: 
mm [0.5] 
nm0363: having a chat [0.4] or how deep do i reflect [0.2] how do you [1.1] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: it's the same as point isn't it 
nf0362: 
nm0363: yeah i just come and sit down here [0.3] and i will write a few point 
[0.2] 
nf0362: absolutely 
nm0363: but [0.5] so [0.3] if you you you think portfolio learning is the way 
forward [0.2] how do you know that person just because they reflected [0.3] 
nf0362: yeah 
nm0363: actually learned [0.3] 
nf0362: i think the important thing is every single system [0.6] there's an 
ability [0.3] to cheat and not get involved [0.5] as you need [0.7] the points 
based system [0.3] great you get a certificate you gain a point but that's not 
to say that you didn't turn up at the back of the lecture pick your certificate 
up [0.2] walk straight back out the door [0.7] er [0.3] and very much i think 
with portfolios is the same you get out of it 
what you put into it [0.8] er they've tried to minimalize that [0.2] by proving 
evidence of learning [0.6] that you've achieved what you set out to achieve now 
[0.9] that could be just a certificate of attendance and the again [1.2] in one 
door out the other [0.3] it's meant to be [0.3] more documentation of your 
reflection [0.3] or changes in practice [0.6] er attendance at clinics et 
cetera et cetera [0.3] but i think there's [0.3] you're completely right 
there's an abe-, [0.3] you know er a possibility of cheating every system [0.7] 
er 
nm0363: i just wonder what are you need to define what is that evidence of 
learning because earlier on you 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: say i might come to this conference [0.2] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: and i learn about P-C-T tutor 
nf0362: mm [1.0] 
nm0363: might be accurate that [0.3] is not s-, [0.4] adequate [0.2] 
nf0362: mm [0.4] 
nm0363: 
in term of er [0.3] acceptable that public money 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: spent on learning about P-C-T tutor [0.5] might well be need to be 
something [0.3] change to quali-, [0.3] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: patient care [0.5] 
nf0362: i mean they are trying to push that the problem is it's in its very 
early stage er [0.2] speaking as G-Ps [0.3] it's in its very early stages [0.3] 
and they're trying to get as many people [0.3] to run with these P-D-Ps because 
of the uncertainty putting people off at the moment [0.4] er so they're not 
being that specific or critical [0.3] about what is done [0.4] er even they're 
saying that perhaps [0.7] they're still suggesting that you spend thirty hours 
[0.3] a year [0.9] on continuing medical education whether it be in the form of 
portfolios [0.5] or point collecting [0.6] er i mean some people have said oh 
well it's [0.2] it's taken me ten hours to write my P-D-P [1.4] er and again 
it's hard to justify that because [0.5] you may have an A-four sheet in front 
of you that looks like it's taken thirty minutes to throw together but [0.4] i 
think you have to try and get people on board [0.3] and once it's been running 
for a few years perhaps they're going to be a bit more critical [2.1] 
nm0364: er namex i found it really helpful this er [0.3] whole idea i didn't 
know the [0.7] er the word portfolio how it had originated [0.3] thank you very 
much [0.6] the way i er my students the ones from namex attach [0.6] i use a 
method where [0.9] they select a patient [0.5] they talk to the patient [1.1] 
then they present it to me [0.4] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0364: then they provide their portfolio [0.2] and they got a section that 
they have to do the research [0.7] and then later i mark it [0.8] s-, er so it 
has given them a chance one to present it to me then they write it [0.9] and 
then they have to do some reading and research and then write it back again 
nf0362: mm [0.3] 
nm0364: so the same portfolio can be used in a very reflective way 
nf0362: mm [0.2] 
nm0364: to learn to see whether they [0.2] when they present it and when they 
finally write it 
up [0.7] er and give it back to you and then we see it again [0.4] so you get a 
third way of going round the problem is [0.6] er the students do an eight week 
[0.2] thing and they give their portfolios in the sixth week [0.7] 
nf0362: mm [0.2] 
nm0364: it's not enough time you should somehow [0.5] do you give the students 
this lecture on portfolio 
nf0362: no [0.3] i don't 
nm0364: i think it would help them to get er this [0.5] thing right at the 
beginning [0.6] they must get their portfolios in at least one or two right at 
the beginning [0.2] 
nf0362: mm [0.3] 
nm0364: you otherwise eight weeks go very rapidly [0.5] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0364: so if we want to get the best out of our students they must do this [0.
4] exercise [0.5] one or two twice earlier on [0.9] to answer the question 
about the reflection method otherwise what happens [0.5] 
at the seventh week they rush in with three portfolios [0.5] i have to mark 
them rapidly and sometimes they give it [0.4] 
nf0362: 
nm0364: you know after they have left us 
nf0362: mm [0.6] i think as well the students are seeing it very much [0.2] as 
[0.4] a tick box part of the course thank you very much that's another essay 
handed in [0.4] i think they've lost [0.6] the track of yes it is that but it's 
something they can carry with them for life [0.7] and i think perhaps if early 
on they realize it's not just [0.2] for the four years of this course they're 
going to be doing this they can keep that as evidence of learning [0.5] that 
goes on and on and on unfortunately your portfolio starts to get bigger and 
bigger and bigger and bigger [0.6] er [0.2] but [0.6] i think that's the 
problem is they're still perhaps seeing it as a [0.9] a sort of milestone [0.7] 
course [3.0] 
nm0363: can i just [0.4] another problem is [0.9] if everything we do we need 
to reflect on it like general i read an article i 
read i will be spending a lot of time writing i find it's quite difficult [0.5] 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: every time i read see an article in the B-M-J i need to write another A-
four [0.2] pages [0.6] i-, [0.5] i just sometimes can be overemphasized 
nf0362: mm 
nm0363: and become paper collec-, [0.2] collection [0.3] 
nf0362: yeah [0.5] er i think [0.5] mm it's [0.3] it's considered it doesn't 
have to be A-four [0.2] it can even be a couple of lines you can even write [0.
5] i read this article it was completely and utterly useless and not relevant 
to me [0.8] it's evidence that you've read that article [0.3] it's elo-, [0.2] 
evidence that you've been self-directed enough to recognize that that hasn't 
addressed your needs [0.5] and [0.2] people are not [0.2] they're still going 
to count that [0.4] as a learning opportunity [0.4] the problem comes as the 
fact that now [0.4] they're trying to use G-P portfolios for revalidation and 
appraisal [0.5] and the whole thing about 
portfolios is y-, that you should be as reflective as possible it's a personal 
development plan [0.2] so you can write in there [0.5] er [0.6] i don't know 
how to examine eyes i'm a G-P and i don't know how to examine eyes so i'm going 
to go to clinic and learn how to examine eyes [0.6] and then you can write [0.
3] in an ideal world [0.2] i went to clinic and i learned nothing about 
examining eyes [0.7] but the problem is people [0.5] the personal development 
plan side of it is if someone else is looking in [1.0] then people are going to 
stop being as personal and as reflective that's the worry [0.5] er in 
educational terms it was always [0.4] held by the student not looked at by 
anyone else [0.4] unless the student was happy and if they wanted to give [0.4] 
part of their personal development plan f-, for a tutor to look at that was 
fine [0.4] but unfortunately in medicine that's been taken out of our hands [0.
4] so even though i say to you you can write one line and say it was useless [0.
3] or one line and say it was very good i think [0.5] er that people are going 
to be a bit 
more wary about what they write in their personal development plans as time 
goes on [0.4] 
nm0366: can i kind of echo that as well 
nf0362: mm [0.2] 
nm0366: this this one has a a slight resonance for me 'cause at the moment i'm 
i'm doing [0.2] postgrad study in namex teaching higher education [0.4] and 
there is a portfolio issue around that what you've just said has an amazing 
resonance because [0.3] for me i [0.4] this is great 'cause it dovetails today 
nf0362: mm [0.2] 
nm0366: er but for me i i want to be able to write down things these are the 
things i need to be thinking about and and meant to be able to refer back to at 
a later date 
nf0362: mm 
nm0366: [0.4] but i have an awareness that part of the process with P-G serves 
er at namex is [0.3] that that material then [0.2] is is able to be looked at 
or should be looked at by the head of department 
nf0362: mm [0.4] 
nm0366: so i'm saying to myself [0.5] what areas er how much [0.3] can i 
declare about my teaching practice 
nf0362: 
mm 
nm0366: in this thing knowing that the person who is paying my wages [0.2] 
could look at it and go [0.7] he's a crap teacher 
nf0362: yeah [laughter] [0.7] 
nm0366: i mean the whole point about reflective practice i think is is to be 
able to se-, to be able to write down i did this today [0.6] this didn't work 
as well as it might have done here is what i th-, here is [0.3] 
nf0362: to do 
nm0366: how i think it might be improved 
nf0362: mm 
nm0366: but the implication is that you did it poorly [0.7] in terms of an 
arbiter reading it at some later point so [0.2] i'm sorry that's not a question 
nf0362: no not at all 
nm0366: it's just a reflection 
nf0362: er it's interesting because 
nm0365: 
nf0362: [laughter] as i say i think it's going to be a real problem [laugh] 
nm0366: how do you do that how do you that [0.5] 
nf0367: 
you w-, so walked right into that though 
nm0366: i'm going to write that down now don't use bad jokes [laughter] [0.2] 
when 
nf0367: [laughter] 
nm0366: yeah absolutely my mental one [0.6] [laughter] 'cause i didn't say any 
of that [0.5] mm [0.9] never mind [1.2] 
nm0360: can [0.2] can i just say a big thank you t-, t-, er er [0.7] er 
something i 'cause this is a personal research area of mine [0.4] but i've 
learned an awful lot from it so i'm going to ask e-, namex to print a handout 
of her er [0.3] Powerpoint slides for me 'cause i found it very helpful [0.4] 
and i was thinking particularly of your first slide where you put in relation 
to Italy l-, [0.4] Italy leaning tower when i first looked at it i wondered if 
it was a spelling mistake and should actually say learning tower [0.2] 
nf0362: it was er namex said that this morning [1.0] [laughter] 
so thank you for a super presentation and very interesting thank you very much 
[6.4] contrary to what namex has just been saying we're not actually i [0.4] 
believe i'm correct in saying we're not giving out certificates of attendance 
[0.2] [laughter] er because 
ss: aah 
nm0360: it's [0.2] in a sense it's not that type of [laughter] it's not that 
type of course of collecting [0.3] collecting points and so on [0.2] there's 
one person that i haven't thanked and has been so quiet and unobtrusive even 
though there are lots of cameras here [0.3] has fallen into the background is 
is namex that [0.5] w-, er i haven't mentioned because in a sense it's made 
today's meeting [0.3] er an educational research project [0.5] in itself [0.4] 
so i'm very grateful for namex being here and i'm sure if anybody [0.2] wants 
to recall the events of today when namex eventually produces a D-V-D [0.3] of 
today it will be possible [0.3] to reflect [2.7] [laughter] on today 
will you be writing that in your portfolio [laughter] 
nm0360: i will be certainly [0.7] thank you very much for everybody to coming 
and thank you for everybody that has contributed and prepared for today and as 
i say particularly for namex at the last minute [0.5] doing her er presentation 
and again to namex for for everything that she's done today [0.6] thank you and 
i [0.2] the only thing is i gather as a collaborative initiative [0.4] we've 
already collaborated in that i'm [0.2] think my colleagues in namex are going 
to [0.3] run the next one of these [0.3] similar days so we'll be looking [0.2] 
very much fo-, 
nm0366: all we have to do is persuade the head [0.2] 
nm0360: that's right [laughter] we'll be looking coming to namex thank you