nm0076: okay [2.1] what i want to talk to [0.2] you about today [0.2] is [0.3] 
the [0.2] so-called Kulturkampf [0.6] the struggle for culture [1.6] which [0.
6] 
sm0077: we haven't got any handouts [1.8] 
nm0076: they should have been passed round there are lots [6.4] would be 
helpful if people rather than sitting on a pile of them actually [0.5] passed 
them round [0.9] er [3.1] so Kulturkampf the so-called struggle for culture [0.
4] in which [1.3] Bismarck [0.7] and the machinery of the newly [1.1] united 
German state and in particular Prussia which remains [0.6] the dominant partner 
within the newly united German state [0.6] essentially persecute the Catholic 
Church [1.6] now you might ask why [0.5] this is [0.3] important why it merits 
a lecture on its own right [1.2] and [0.4] in a sense in the general scheme of 
things it probably isn't as important as the [0.4] outbreak of the First World 
War [0.3] or the partitions of Poland [0.6] or the [0.4] Austro-Prussian war of 
eighteen-sixty-six or the Franco-Prussian war of eighteen-seventy seventy-one 
[0.9] but i think it's very important to look at as a very good example [0.6] 
of the sort of problems [0.4] that were faced by 
the newly united German state problems of shaping identity [0.3] problems of 
dealing with what remains a very diverse population [1.7] i also think it's [0.
8] an interesting subject as a very good example as a good case study [1.1] 
highlighting the personality [0.4] of [0.2] Bismarck the dominant figure [0.5] 
in the first twenty years of the united German state [0.2] much as he'd been 
the dominant figure [0.6] in [0.7] the previous [0.6] ten fifteen [0.2] years 
[0.4] in [0.3] the Prussian state [3.5] it [0.4] is a good example of his 
ability to manoeuvre politically [0.5] and of his [0.5] tensions [0.2] the 
tensions that exist in his mind [0.3] between a basic ideological position [0.
8] and [0.3] a position of political expedience [2.0] i think it's also 
important because it locates problems of the new German state [0.5] more 
broadly [0.9] within [1.3] debates that are going on [0.4] not only in central 
Europe but across Europe as a whole [0.2] er [2.1] the issue of church-state 
relations [0.2] is in my opinion more important in the late nineteenth century 
[0.4] than any debates over [0.3] class or the social question [0.2] what 
determines people's 
political views is first and foremost [0.5] in the eighteen-seventies eighties 
probably eighteen-nineties [0.2] still primarily [0.2] religious [0.2] views [1.
2] and i think the Kulturkampf this struggle between the Catholic Church and 
the Prussian state [0.3] is a very clear example of this [1.4] it shows that 
the problems faced by [0.4] the newly united German state are problems that are 
shared by many other European countries [1.4] and yet at the same time while it 
does reveal [0.7] the similarities between Germany [0.5] and the rest of the 
Europe [1.0] it also can be used to highlight what two [0.8] eminent historians 
in the nineteen-eighties described as the peculiarities of German history [0.6] 
it highlights that there that Germany in some senses [0.3] is rather different 
from other European states the solutions that are taken to deal [0.2] with the 
Catholic question [0.5] are [0.4] specific [0.3] to [0.3] Prussia [0.4] and [1.
0] to lesser extent Germany as a whole [0.8] and reveal some of the problems 
that there are for example [0.8] with [0.6] liberalism [0.7] in [0.2] Germany 
[0.4] that liberalism is a rather 
different phenomenon in Germany from other European countries [3.5] i'll begin 
by simply running through the [0.3] key [0.3] events [0.7] of the so-called 
Kulturkampf the [0.8] battle for civilization the battle for culture [0.2] 
struggle for culture [0.6] in [2.5] Prussia and Germany [0.5] during the 
eighteen-seventies [2.4] it should be remembered that in eighteen-sixty-seven 
[1.4] it was [0.2] agreed [1.5] that [1.1] in the North German Confederation [0.
3] the newly created North German Confederation [1.1] religious matters were 
the preserve of [0.4] the individual states of the Confederation [0.2] rather 
than the Confederation as a whole [0.8] and this measure is extended [0.5] to 
[0.4] the German Reich when it comes into being in eighteen-seventy-one [1.4] 
that the [0.9] states of Bavaria [1.1] or Württemburg [0.7] or Prussia [0.6] 
actually maintained their own religious policies there was not an imperial 
religious policy [4.0] now in March eighteen-seventy-one [1.5] the Centre Party 
[0.6] which is a party that's emerged [0.9] amongst [0.2] Hanoverians [0.7] 
after eighteen-sixty-six [1.3] anxious to minimize the impact [0.5] of Prussian 
dominance over the 
Hanoverian state [1.4] and that has subsequently become a focus for Catholic [0.
3] opposition [0.3] to the way in which Germany has been united [1.3] in March 
eighteen-seventy-one the Centre Party [0.2] the so-called Zentrum [1.8] calls 
in the Imperial Diet [0.5] that's the [0.2] whole German Diet [1.2] for the 
establishment [0.5] of [0.9] basic rights [0.4] in the constitution [2.2] now 
remember that in eighteen-forty-eight forty-nine the liberals in Frankfurt had 
established a Bill of Basic Rights [0.9] and this includes [0.2] the right [0.
4] to freedom of worship [3.5] this [0.9] call [0.5] by the Centre Party [0.8] 
for a Bill of Rights [0.7] is significantly [0.3] rejected by almost every 
other [0.4] political party [0.5] in the Imperial Diet [1.3] the National 
Liberals [0.2] and the Progressives [1.5] side with the Conservatives [0.7] and 
the two [0.2] members of the S-P-D the Socialist Party the n-, the the nascent 
Socialist Party [0.6] in [0.2] rejecting [0.3] a Bill of Rights [1.5] so you 
have a broad spectrum from the extreme left to the extreme right who also we 
don't want a Bill of Basic Rights [0.3] and the reason they do this [0.3] is 
they 
see it as special [0.2] pleading [0.5] for the interest of the Catholic Church 
[1.0] they realize what the Centre Party really wants [0.2] is a defence of the 
interests of Catholicism and they feel that this can best be done [0.3] by 
defending individuals' rights [0.2] therefore individuals can c-, choose [0.3] 
their re-, religious affiliation [0.2] and that can enable them to defend their 
own church's position within the German Reich [1.8] so it's rejected by 
everyone [1.0] they all gang up on the Catholics [2.9] in June [0.9] eighteen-
seventy-two [3.2] a guy named Adalbert Falk [0.3] his name is on the [0.5] 
handout [0.8] was appointed as Prussian [0.3] Minister of Culture [0.3] 
Education and Church Affairs [1.8] and the period [0.3] that's known as [0.2] 
the period of Kampfgesetze the period of the struggle [1.2] against the 
Catholic Church is well and truly launched [2.0] legislation [0.2] aimed [0.3] 
at reducing the power influence and autonomy [0.2] of the Catholic Church [0.9] 
is subsequently passed [0.5] both in the Prussian Landtag [1.0] both in the 
Prussian [0.2] elect assembly [0.4] and in the Reichstag [0.9] of [0.4] the 
whole of united 
Germany [3.6] in fact [0.3] persecution [0.3] of the Catholics [0.4] had 
already begun in a sense [1.5] the previous year [2.3] in [0.2] January 
eighteen-seventy-one [2.0] the Catholic section [0.6] of the Prussian Minister 
of cul-, Ministry of Culture [1.4] which looked after [0.2] the interests of 
the Catholic Church in Prussia remember that Prussia has a significant Catholic 
population [0.2] particularly in the Rhineland [1.0] was abolished [0.7] in 
other words the ins-, the the section of the Minister of [0.4] Culture [1.0] 
that protects the interests of Prussia's Catholics [1.1] is done away with [3.
8] the argument being [1.0] that [0.4] the [3.0] Catholic section [0.2] 
represented the interests of the church and not the state that it was a special 
[0.3] it was a special body [0.2] just representing [0.5] a mino-, minority a 
religious minority of the [1.6] Prussian population [1.8] what possibly lay 
behind its abol-, abolition however [0.6] was the fact that its leader 
obviously a Catholic [0.5] Albert Krätzig [1.4] was perceived as being pro-
Polish [1.3] and remember that the [1.8] Minister-President of Prussia [1.6] 
Chancellor of the 
New Reich [1.0] Bismarck [0.4] is passionately anti-Polish he sees the Poles as 
a fundamental problem [0.3] within [0.3] the Prussian [0.2] state [0.2] and 
indeed within the new united Germany [0.3] he sees the Poles as enemies of the 
state [1.4] he also has a essentially racialist view [0.4] that the Poles are 
subhuman remember this quotation that could almost come of the come out of 
Hitler [0.4] that it's not the Poles' fault [0.8] just as it's not the wolf's 
fault [0.3] but we shoot the wolf nonetheless [0.6] he somehow thinks they all 
are subhuman [0.3] they're inferior [0.3] but he sees them as a fundamental 
challenge [0.2] to the integrity of the Reich [0.3] and to the integrity of 
Prussia [0.5] so [0.2] the fact that the Catholic section [0.4] is headed by 
someone who's sympathetic towards the Poles and the Poles are of course [0.4] 
Catholic [1.2] means that [0.3] Bismarck is keen to do away with it [2.2] but 
the more significant piece of legislation [0.4] in November [0.3] eighteen-
seventy-one [0.9] is the Pulpit Law [1.8] which imposes [0.2] criminal 
penalties [0.6] on priests [0.3] who are [0.2] convicted [0.4] of [1.1] 
electioneering through the pulpit [0.4] in other words priests [0.3] who preach 
sermons [0.2] which are perceived as having a political content [0.5] can be 
fined [0.4] and in extremis [0.4] sacked or thrown into prison [1.1] 
and that's a very significant law which i will return to later [2.6] in 
eighteen-seventy-two [1.8] religious control of schools inspectors [0.4] in 
Prussia [0.5] is replaced [0.4] by state [0.7] inspectors [2.5] Prussian 
schools in other words are removed entirely from clerical control [1.2] the 
most powerful of all Catholic orders the Jesuits [1.0] are banned from 
establishing institutions in Germany [1.5] new institutions [0.4] and 
individual states in Germany [0.3] begin a policy of expulsion of the Jesuits 
[2.4] almost all the states with Protestant majorities kicked the Jesuits out 
[2.7] and then in eighteen-seventy-three the so-called May Laws are launched [2.
4] priests [0.2] who had formerly Catholic priests who had formerly trained in 
seminaries [1.8] are now forced to study [0.2] first of all at a state 
Gymnasium a state grammar school and then [0.2] at a [0.3] state-run [0.2] 
university [1.3] in other words [0.4] whereas 
previously the church had very considerable influence [0.2] over [1.6] the [0.
8] educational establishment [0.2] of the schooling [0.2] of people in Prussia 
particularly in Catholic areas [0.4] you now have the state [0.3] controlling 
[0.2] the education of priests [0.4] the positions have been reversed [2.3] 
priests [0.4] have their [1.3] young impressionable minds [0.3] controlled [0.
3] by [1.0] state officials state employers [2.5] and not only that just in 
case [1.5] clergy [0.4] come out [0.5] still thinking independently [0.9] the 
state is given the right of veto [0.3] over all appointments [0.4] to church 
positions [1.6] in other words the power of the state over the church is beefed 
up immeasurably [2.7] the following year in eighteen-seventy-four [1.0] civil 
marriage [0.2] is introduced [2.2] and all states [0.4] in the German 
Confederation are empowered [0.2] to expel clergy who they perceive as 
troublesome [6.1] the following year [0.2] the Prussian Landtag [1.6] suspends 
[0.4] subsidies [0.2] to the church [2.3] in any diocese [0.2] where [0.2] the 
clergy [0.3] have been found to criticize the state's legislation [1.9] and 
religious orders [0.9] communities of nuns and friars and monks [0.8] 
are dissolved [0.7] except when they're involved in nursing so contemplative 
and teaching orders [1.7] get closed down [3.3] the response to this is 
widespread Catholic agitation [0.2] and resistance [1.0] which leads to [0.3] 
the sacking the expulsion and the imprisonment of clergy [0.4] across the 
Catholic regions of Prussia [1.2] and to a lesser extent in some of the other 
German states [0.6] by eighteen-seventy-six [1.2] one-thousand-four-hundred 
parishes [0.3] in Prussia had no priests [1.1] and between eighteen-seventy-six 
and eighteen-seventy-nine [0.7] there is a state of [0.5] to say it's war would 
be exaggeration but there is a s-, a state of [0.5] incredible [0.2] hostility 
[0.6] between the Catholic Church and Catholic believers on the one hand [0.8] 
and the mechanisms of the Prussian state and the Prussian bureaucracy on the 
other [1.3] civil disobedience [0.3] protests [0.5] widespread hostility [5.6] 
suddenly [0.5] in eighteen-seventy-nine [0.8] Bismarck [0.9] changes his 
position [1.3] and relents [1.0] and the vast majority of this legislation [0.
4] is done away with and jettisoned [1.4] and members of the Catholic Centre 
Party [0.8] are allowed [0.2] into government posts [1.6] so this begs two 
questions first of all [0.3] why between eighteen-seventy-one and eighteen-
seventy-eight seventy-nine [0.6] does Bismarck and the new Prussian state [0.7] 
basically put the boot in fairly bloody seriously [0.5] on the Catholic Church 
[0.4] and why [0.7] having [0.4] attacked the Catholic Church [0.3] labelled 
Catholics as enemies both of the Prussian state and the New Reich [0.6] is 
there this sudden volte-face [1.0] this turnaround [0.6] and this abi-, this 
desire [0.2] to [0.6] pacify the Catholics [0.2] do deals with them [0.4] even 
let them into government [0.5] what's going on here [2.2] well i think there 
are a number of ways of looking at the Kulturkampf [1.7] and one way to see it 
[0.5] is simply as part of a [0.2] historical conflict [2.9] since the 
Reformation [2.3] since the early fifteen-hundreds since Luther first starts 
causing trouble in fifteen-seventeen [1.0] Germany [0.2] had been divided 
religiously [3.6] between fifteen-twenty and fifteen-fifty-five [0.2] scarcely 
a year went past without some form of religious conflict and 
when i say religious conflict this involves bloodshed [0.4] this involves major 
wars [1.9] by fifteen-fifty-five [0.2] an uneasy modus vivendi had been 
established [0.9] in which basically it's decided that the rulers of Germany's 
various [0.4] petty princedoms [0.7] can decide what religion they want to be 
whether they want to be Lutheran or Catholic [0.4] and then unless you live in 
in in [0.2] an imperial free city [0.5] you have to [0.9] follow the religion 
[0.7] of your ruler [0.2] or get the hell out of the state [1.8] i mean this 
does occasionally lead to oddities in which a r-, in in which a [0.2] successor 
to the throne suddenly says well [0.8] i think i'm turning Lutheran [1.2] and 
the population that's been happily Catholic for the previous [0.3] twenty 
thirty years suddenly think [0.3] oh Christ you know [0.4] what do we do now do 
we get out do we stay do we turn Lutheran so there's quite a lot of notional 
changes [0.3] where people actually [0.2] retain [1.1] basically old religious 
beliefs and make a sort of s-, [0.2] er [1.6] a façade [0.3] of [0.4] holding 
[0.5] er a different religious creed [0.6] 
but essentially by fifteen-fifty-five by the Peace of Augsburg [0.4] there is 
[0.3] an uneasy [1.7] er modus vivendi in the German states [1.8] during the 
Thirty Years War [0.6] of [0.2] s-, sixteen-eighteen to forty-eight [0.8] that 
breaks down [0.3] largely because of the rise of Calvinism [0.7] so there are 
two sorts of Protestant faiths [0.6] the Calvinists and the Lutherans who don't 
see eye to eye [0.3] about the one thing the Lutherans do agree with the 
Catholics over [0.2] is hating Calvinists [0.6] and so there is a breakdown [0.
2] in church-state [0.3] er there's again a breakdown in religious relations [0.
3] and although you'll find Catholics [0.5] in alliance with Protestants during 
the Thirty Years War on occasion [0.3] there is a strong undercurrent of 
religious hostility [0.5] that lasts [0.3] during the seventeenth century [1.6] 
by the eighteenth century [0.3] there are clear there are no religious wars [0.
3] in Germany any more [2.2] nevertheless [0.2] tensions [0.5] still exist [0.
2] and run very deep [0.2] between Catholic and Protestant [0.5] and indeed 
between different [0.3] Protestant believers [1.4] when [0.4] the [0.2] two 
Protestant Churches the Lutheran and Calvinist Church are united [1.2] in [0.6] 
Prussia [2.0] in the eighteen-twenties [0.9] there is a very marked hostility 
amongst a lot of Lutherans and Calvinists and many actually leave to set up new 
communities in the new world because they can't bear to see these two states [0.
2] these two [0.3] religious [1.3] sets of beliefs united in a single church [0.
6] but the real tensions by the nineteenth century are basically between 
Catholic and Protestant [3.4] so there's a long term [1.0] historical conflict 
[0.8] there's also a shorter term historical conflict which i'll return to in a 
minute [2.6] but there's also a tradition of a clash between [0.3] church and 
state [2.0] in Germany [0.3] in the Middle Ages there'd been a clash between 
the so-called Guelphs the pro-papal faction [0.3] and the so-called Ghibellines 
the pro-imperial faction [0.4] even before there was a Reformation [1.7] the 
civil authorities often resented the power [0.6] of the ecclesiastical 
authorities [2.9] by the eighteenth century [0.2] there was a new onslaught 
against 
the church per se [0.9] the ideas of the Enlightenment of what the Germans 
called the Aufklärung [0.9] challenged [0.3] the role of chu-, the church in 
society [1.1] challenged superstition [0.5] challenged intolerance [0.4] 
challenged the desire of the church to control education [2.1] and many [0.3] 
reforming princes [0.6] Joseph the Second [0.4] and Frederick the Great are 
good examples [1.7] decide to take on [0.2] the church [0.4] even someone like 
Maria Theresia who is a good Catholic girl [0.5] decides that it is important 
to reduce the power of the church [0.3] within her [1.2] dominions [1.2] to 
seize some of the wealth of the church for redistribution [1.0] and indeed to 
reduce things like the numbers of religious holidays which mean that you know 
there are about a hundred-and- [0.3] twenty days a year when people 
theoretically don't have to work it's not very good for the economy [0.3] when 
people just think oh religious holiday [0.3] go to church and get pissed 
afterwards this is basically what religious holidays were for [0.8] er the 
consumption of [0.2] disgraceful quantities of 
alcohol [0.9] but [0.9] the idea that somehow the church is a dead weight on 
society it prevents efficient bureaucracy it even-, er prevents [0.3] efficient 
education [0.2] it prevents scientific progress [0.6] er [0.2] and it [0.2] 
saps the economic strength of the country [1.1] the idea that the church is 
somehow [0.3] needs to be tamed and controlled is something that is fairly deep-
seated [1.4] 
in the courts of [0.3] central Europe [0.8] by [0.3] the mid to late eighteenth 
century [2.3] and so there is a tradition of a clash between church and state 
and if you actually look at the extracts i've given [2.7] you'll see that 
Bismarck [0.2] in eighteen-seventy-three actually decides to [0.2] legitimate 
what he's doing [1.1] he's not telling the truth incidentally [0.2] but he 
decides to legitimate what he's doing by saying [0.2] it is not a matter of an 
attack by a Protestant dynasty upon the Catholic Church [0.3] as our Catholic 
fellow citizens are being told [0.6] it is a not a a matter of [0.2] the 
struggle between [0.3] or betweem because i've misprin-, mistyped it [0.3] 
between faith and 
unbelief [0.5] what we have here is an age-old struggle for power [0.2] as old 
as the human race itself [0.3] between kingship and the priestly caste [1.0] 
and there is a little bit of truth [0.3] in this [0.6] and certainly there is a 
tradition of church-state tension [0.4] that [0.4] runs [0.5] throughout many 
of the regimes in central Europe [0.5] and certainly predates the unification 
of Germany [2.8] but i think if you want a real [0.4] clue [0.2] to 
understanding [0.2] what is going on [1.3] with the Kulturkampf you need to 
look at recent [0.2] historical [0.3] conflict [2.7] some historians and an 
example of this is William Carr in his standard textbook [0.2] on [1.7] Germany 
[0.5] Modern Germany [0.8] suggests that eighteen-seventy-two [1.1] was a new 
departure [0.4] that the Kulturkampf was somehow a new [0.8] trend [0.4] in 
politics [1.1] and in fact [0.2] this is [0.6] rubbish [1.1] it is quite clear 
[0.7] that the biggest divisions [0.2] in German society and politics [1.5] in 
the nineteenth century [1.4] are based along religious [0.2] lines [3.0] if you 
look for example [0.3] at the voting [0.2] in the Frankfurt Assembly in 
eighteen-forty-eight forty-nine [1.1] the didid-, 
the division [0.2] between people who support a Kleindeutschland a lesser 
Germany [1.5] focused on Prussia [0.9] and people who support a 
Grossdeutschland [1.0] a greater Germany [0.8] with [0.2] its [0.2] centre in 
Vienna [2.6] very largely [0.7] it's not an absolute rule [0.2] you get 
exceptions like von Radowitz who is a Catholic and [0.2] a Prussian [1.2] 
expansionist [0.7] but very [0.7] crudely [0.3] the big division is between 
Catholics [0.6] and non-Catholics [1.2] Catholics want to include Austria [1.6] 
Protestants want to exclude [0.2] Austria [3.5] if you look at the population 
of the German Confederation [0.5] you'll see why [2.2] in eighteen-fifty-five 
[0.3] the population of the German Confederation [0.6] was forty-three-million 
[0.2] strong [1.3] of which twenty-three-million [0.2] were Catholics [2.1] 
however of those twenty-three-million [0.7] twelve-million [0.9] are Habsburg 
subjects [1.1] if you take [0.4] out [0.4] the Habsburg subjects [0.4] from the 
equation [0.7] Germany is predominantly Protestant [0.4] if you leave in [0.2] 
the Habsburg subjects [0.2] Germany is predominantly Catholic [1.2] Catholics 
in order to defend their own religious 
dominance [0.3] need [0.5] Austria to be [0.2] included [1.6] the Roman 
Catholics of Germany have no desire to turn themselves wilfully [0.2] into [0.
4] a [0.2] minority [7.3] Catholics knew what it was like to be [0.3] a 
minority [1.2] in Prussia [1.5] after eighteen-fifty [0.8] the Catholics [0.2] 
began to develop [0.8] a into being a clearly confessional [0.2] party [2.9] 
although Prussia was predominantly Protestant there was a massive Catholic 
minority [0.6] focused primarily [0.3] amongst [0.2] the population of the 
Rhineland [0.4] acquired [0.3] after [0.5] the Napoleonic Wars [0.9] and in 
Poland [1.0] Prussian Poland [4.1] they were [0.2] weak enough in numbers to 
feel threatened [0.3] but strong enough [0.4] in order to feel that they could 
defend themselves [1.8] and [1.6] because of the [0.2] constitution [0.2] 
retained in Prussia after eighteen-fifty [1.2] the Catholics [0.2] were able to 
establish a parliamentary voice [0.6] were able to establish [0.6] a [0.4] body 
[0.4] that could defend their interests [4.0] they did not [0.3] blindly follow 
[0.2] the Pope [1.4] by eighteen-fifty-eight the Prussian Catholic Fraktion as 
it was called the ca-, the Fraktion [0.3] it's what they call parties [1.3] was 
[0.5] 
fed up [0.4] with [0.3] Pius [0.5] the Ninth the Pope [0.7] who in the 
aftermath of the eighteen-forty-eight forty-nine [0.2] revolutions became 
extremely reactionary [0.5] and they actually dropped [0.3] the element [0.2] 
Catholic [0.3] from their title [1.1] and they for the first time [0.2] adopt 
the name [1.0] Fraktion [0.3] des Zentrums [0.7] this th-, th-, the f-, the 
Party of the Centre [0.6] and it's this party that together with the Hanoverian 
[1.7] anti-Prussians becomes the Centre Party [0.3] after [0.4] eighteen- [0.3] 
sixty-six sixty-seven [4.3] they are not [0.9] actively anti-Prussian [1.1] but 
they become disillusioned with Prussia [0.4] by the late eighteen-fifties [1.3] 
in eighteen-fifty-nine remember the Austrians go to war [0.4] in [0.4] Italy 
against the French [1.3] and the [0.4] Prussian Catholic Party [0.9] is 
outraged [1.4] that the [0.5] Prussians don't go to the assistance of the 
Austrians [0.4] against the French [0.7] the reason for this is not German 
nationalism [0.7] the reason for this is that they see the French [0.5] as 
destabilizing Italy [0.7] and undermining the security of the Pope [0.7] in [0.
4] the Italian peninsula [1.0] it's paradoxical that this is the 
case since the French actually keep a garrison in Rome to defend the Pope [1.9] 
but they are [2.0] very angry [0.4] that the [0.4] Prussians [0.3] don't fight 
against the French [1.2] and [0.7] in eighteen-sixty [0.9] they're very 
disillusioned when [0.3] areas of the papal state [0.3] are annexed by the new 
Italy [1.1] that the Prussians [0.3] don't give the Austrians military backing 
so that they can go into Italy and restore the old order [3.3] they also [1.6] 
are [0.4] passionate adherents [1.2] to the er notion [0.4] that [0.9] Austria 
[0.2] must remain within [0.2] the [1.4] German Confederation [5.9] and indeed 
[0.4] Catholics [0.2] in general throughout Germany whether in Prussia or not 
[1.2] remain [0.6] almost to a man [0.5] and woman [0.5] hostile to a 
Kleindeutschland solution that's focused on Prussia [1.6] it is significant [0.
7] that [0.6] in eighteen-sixty-six [1.2] the Rhinelanders [1.0] the Catholic 
Prussians [2.5] largely refused to mobilize in the war against Austria [1.7] 
now think what Prussian military discipline is like [0.3] you do not disobey 
orders in the Prussian army [0.7] but Rhineland regiments en masse were saying 
[0.3] we are not [0.2] going to fight against 
fellow Catholic Germans [0.2] which is how they perceived the Austrians [3.7] 
in [0.7] the eighteen-sixties [0.3] the Catholic Bishop of Mainz [2.4] guy 
named Ketteler [0.3] his name is on the [1.1] er [1.5] the the the handout or 
it should be [0.7] er [4.2] yeah [0.3] the second name on the handout [2.5] 
Ketteler who [0.2] had been a deputy in the Frankfurt Assembly [0.8] and who 
knew Bismarck [0.8] quite well began to establish [0.2] what [0.2] a an active 
[0.7] party [1.3] seeking a Grossdeutschland [0.8] seeking German nationalism 
within a greater Germany [0.8] condemning [0.9] the [0.5] Kleindeutsch pressure 
group the Nationalverein [1.3] as ein antikatholische Verein an anti-Catholic 
organization an anti-Catholic organ [3.9] however [1.2] by [0.3] eighteen- [0.
2] sixty- [0.2] six sixty-seven [0.7] after the defeat of the Austrians [1.1] 
Catholics begin to recognize [0.4] that [0.3] they can no longer look to Vienna 
for help [1.2] Ketteler who had been perhaps the most [1.0] outspoken [0.4] 
critic er [0.7] of [1.7] Prussian expansionism [0.8] of a Kleindeutschland 
solution to the German question [1.6] in eighteen-sixty-seven writes a book [0.
6] called [0.4] Germany after the War of Eighteen-sixty-six [0.5] 
in which he says Catholics must reconcile themselves to the new order [0.3] 
there is no point being nostalgic [0.5] for the old days when the Habsburgs 
defended Catholic interests [1.7] German Roman Catholics [0.6] must work within 
the new Reich [0.3] for the benefit of the Catholic Church [0.8] and must seek 
[0.2] reconciliation [1.3] on condition [0.2] that Roman Catholicism [0.3] is 
respected [4.2] now [0.3] it's at this point that i want to stress that [0.3] 
relationships with the Catholic Church [1.6] are problematic [1.5] across the 
whole of Europe in this period [3.8] Roman cath-, er Catholicism rested 
uneasily [0.4] with the modern state [1.2] with liberalism [0.8] with progress 
[0.6] and with nationalism [0.5] remember that the Catholic Church itself its 
very name [0.2] means the universal church [0.9] so in a period [0.5] in which 
nation states are being created [1.4] the idea of stressing the nation [0.5] is 
[0.2] anathema [0.4] to Catholicism [3.0] and the Catholic Church [0.4] in the 
late nineteenth century [0.7] becomes engaged [0.6] with [1.4] in struggles [0.
2] with the state [0.4] across Europe [2.0] in France in the early eighteen-
seventies there's what the great historian of the French church [0.5] Dansette 
[3.5] 
calls the honeymoon of the clericals there's a brief period when the [0.5] 
clericals get on quite well with the church [1.0] but from the late eight-, er 
f-, er sorry when when the establishment gets on quite well with the church but 
from the late eighteen-seventies until ni-, [0.2] nineteen-o-five when church 
and state are separated in France [0.5] the single [1.6] biggest [0.2] rallying 
point of all left wing politicians [0.3] is hostility to the church [1.9] your 
political position [0.5] is defined [0.4] basically in terms of whether you're 
pro-Pope or anti-Pope [1.2] if you're a conservative reactionary [0.2] you're 
pro-clerical [1.2] if you're a left-winger and that doesn't matter if you're a 
radical who believes in low taxation and the small businessman [0.9] or a 
Communist who believes in [0.4] high taxation [0.4] and [0.6] the 
nationalization of the means of production it doesn't matter what makes you a 
left-winger is hating the church [3.5] the vast majority of political debates 
in France from the late eighteen-seventies until the early twentieth century [0.
3] focus [0.2] on the role of ch-, the church [0.7] key political [0.4] clashes 
[0.4] are almost all about the church [2.8] in Austria [2.0] in 
eighteen-fifty-five there is a concordat [1.3] er [0.4] the church was given by 
Francis Joseph massive powers over education [1.3] and church lands that had 
been seized in the eighteenth century by Maria Theresia [0.2] and Joseph the 
Second [0.4] are returned [3.1] after until eighteen-seventy-five [1.3] a [0.9] 
statesman named Rauscher [4.2] is responsible very much for a [0.3] a Catholic 
[0.2] reaction [3.3] but from the late eighteen-fifties onwards the definition 
of a liberal [0.5] in the Habsburg empire [1.4] is someone who basically [0.2] 
resents the authority of the church [2.7] anti-militarism [0.3] and 
anticlericalism [0.2] go hand in hand [0.7] with liberal [0.2] beliefs [2.0] 
and the liberals have some victories [1.1] in eighteen-seventy [2.8] a marriage 
law [0.6] and an education law are adopted both limiting church authority [1.1] 
and eighteen-sixty-eight to seventy-three saw repeated [0.3] success [0.2] 
amongst the liberals [0.2] in introducing anticlerical legislation [5.4] 
nationalists [0.2] also [1.2] feared the Catholic Church [0.5] nationalists 
from the smaller [0.4] minorit-, the smaller ethnic groups 
in the Habsburg empire [0.4] because they saw Catholicism as universal and 
transcending [1.7] national boundaries [0.7] so you'll find that nationalists 
also the the Czech or [1.0] even Polish nationalists are sometimes hostile to 
the Catholic Church [0.4] despite [0.2] Catholicism being such an integral part 
of Polish nationalism [2.8] in Italy [0.8] which has understandably [1.3] got 
very difficult relationships with the church since the new Italian state had 
seized [0.4] the Pope's temporal t-, [0.7] territories [2.1] in Italy again [0.
5] the issue of church-state relations [0.6] is extremely painful [1.8] Roman 
Catholics [0.3] are supposed to boycott elections [2.5] bearing in mind that 
the vast majority of the population are practising Catholics this is somewhat 
problematic for the new Italian state [1.1] er [2.0] but anticlericalism 
becomes again the touchstone by which left wing views are [0.8] judged [1.7] 
and the [0.2] problematic relationship between the Pope [0.6] and [0.8] the 
Italian state [0.9] is not [0.2] properly reconciled [1.2] until Mussolini 
basically buys the Pope off with very large sums of 
money [0.8] in the Lateran Treaties the Lateran Pacts of nineteen-twenty-nine 
[2.6] er [3.0] in Britain [1.9] there is [0.9] strong residual [0.3] anti-
Catholicism which is largely tied up [0.2] with the [0.7] Irish question [1.4] 
right across Europe [1.1] liberals [1.6] tend [0.2] to be [0.6] anti-Catholic 
[4.9] in Germany it's even more marked [2.8] why [0.6] is there such a problem 
[3.6] well [0.8] as i've already said [0.7] the tradition of both the Holy 
Roman Empire and Habsburg dominance [1.3] premised on a close alliance with the 
Catholic Church [1.0] means that until eighteen-sixty-six [0.3] Catholicism is 
seen [0.3] as the enemy [0.4] of Kleindeutschland German nationalism [1.0] but 
in a sense as Ketteler says after eighteen-sixty-six you can't carry on being 
[0.3] nostalgic [0.2] for the old order [0.4] and that ceases to be such a big 
problem [3.8] the Pope [0.4] is [1.6] unquestionably [0.6] hostile [0.3] to the 
very idea of nationalism [1.7] not only by virtue of the universalism of 
Catholicism by the brothership of man [2.5] but also [0.5] by virtue of the 
fact [0.3] that it is nationalism Italian nationalism that is br-, lost him his 
temporal power [0.8] and 
therefore he sees nationalism per se as rather a a dodgy political [0.4] creed 
[5.3] but the big problem i think really lies [0.2] in the very nature of the 
Pope himself [1.2] Pius the Ninth [0.2] was elected in eighteen-forty-six [0.6] 
as [0.5] apparently [0.6] a liberal [0.2] reforming Pope [2.4] however [1.0] as 
a consequence of [0.3] the revolutions of eighteen-forty-eight forty-nine he's 
turned into a born-again reactionary [1.2] this is the man who [0.5] bans 
gaslights as a sign of nasty modernity [0.6] who chucks the Jews of Rome back 
into the ghetto [1.0] in eighteen-sixty-four he is responsible for the Syllabus 
of Errors [0.5] in which he basically lists [0.5] anything that's progressive 
and most things [0.2] that are fun [0.4] and says that they are evil [1.2] 
almost any ism [1.3] and most [0.6] aspects of scientific progress [0.6] are 
vilified [2.2] and in eighteen-seventy he goes a step further [1.6] in [0.6] 
issuing [0.3] the decree of papal infallibility [0.9] the Pope [0.3] cannot be 
wrong [0.2] on anything [3.4] the Pope becomes a symbol [0.5] of [2.4] 
unquestioning [2.1] reaction [1.6] of hostility to progress [2.6] but was the 
Kulturkampf [1.0] simply a 
struggle against the anti-modernism [0.4] the anti-nationalism and the 
obscurantism of the church [0.4] is it trying to limit [0.4] the [0.5] 
influence [0.2] of this extremely reactionary [0.6] church [2.6] well [0.3] in 
part [0.2] yes [1.5] most German liberals [0.2] disliked [0.2] everything the 
Catholic Church stood for [1.5] they believed in progress [2.6] they believed 
in science [0.4] they believed in nationalism [1.3] and the Pope stands in the 
way of all of these things [2.4] there is a whole wave of literature [1.7] 
produced not simply in the new German state but also in [0.7] the Habsburg 
empire [0.3] amongst German liberals [0.3] and in German-speaking Switzerland 
[1.4] that attacks [1.1] the role of the church [1.3] men like Busch [0.6] 
Böcklin [1.3] Anzengruber [0.8] their names are on the list [0.5] are 
extremely contemptuous of the role of the church in society [3.1] there is also 
the danger [2.7] that [0.2] the church [0.5] would educate [0.2] the future 
leadership [0.2] church schools are extremely good Jesuit schools are so good 
[0.4] that Protestants are known to send their kids to [0.4] the Jesuits [2.1] 
to get decent education [1.9] and there is the fear [0.2] and this has been 
seen in France [0.6] under Napoleon the Third there was the fear [0.4] that [0.
5] the Catholic Church will end er end up educating future elites [0.3] who 
will then [0.6] manage to [0.4] impose their Catholicism on German society [1.
0] so there's a desire to prevent the [0.2] Church's [0.2] role in education [1.
4] and it is quite clear that not only the liberals recognize this but Bismarck 
[0.8] who is a fierce Protestant in his religious beliefs [2.7] is also aware 
[0.2] of the need to move with the times [0.2] and prevent [0.4] obscurantism 
in the field of sciences [1.4] so [0.4] that partially explains it [0.2] but [0.
2] i think [1.0] the real explanation [1.7] comes from looking at the first key 
piece of legislation [0.7] the Pulpit Law [2.0] the law [0.4] that forbids [0.
8] Catholic priests [2.2] on pain of quite heavy penalties in terms of fines or 
exile or imprisonment [1.1] forbids them [0.6] from using the pulpit [0.2] for 
electoral purposes [0.6] for [0.3] forbids them from [0.2] discussing [1.1] 
political matters [0.2] when they're sermonizing [3.5] Margaret Lavinia 
Anderson [1.3] in her brilliant [0.2] biography [0.4] of the [0.6] leader of 
the Centre Party Ludwig Windthorst 
whose name is on the list [1.4] writes of the Pulpit Law [1.9] and the 
Kulturkampf in general [1.7] the following [1.9] that the legislative attack [0.
7] on the position of the Catholic Church [0.7] followed immediately on the 
heels of the declaration of papal infallibility [0.3] and the founding of the 
German Empire is often noted [1.1] what is less often [0.2] remarked [0.5] is 
that it also followed very swiftly [0.2] after the introduction in Germany [0.
6] of a democratic franchise [0.2] on the widest scale [1.2] of any [0.3] great 
[0.2] power [0.2] in Europe [2.8] the clue [0.4] to anti-Catholic legislation 
[0.9] lies [0.8] principally [1.1] in the fact that Bismarck decides to use 
universal male suffrage for the elections to the Reichstag [7.7] 
the Liberals [1.2] claimed [0.4] to represent [0.2] the Volk [0.5] claimed to 
represent the German nation [4.2] but if you actually look at who the Liberals 
really represent [0.7] they represent a very narrow elite [0.3] of middle class 
professionals [0.9] your average German does not give a toss [0.2] about what 
the National Liberals and Progressives want [1.7] they're interested about [0.
3] feeding their families [0.7] they're interested in local politics [0.6] they 
might be interested in hammering the French on the battlefield [0.9] but they 
are not interested [0.7] in [0.4] what the likes of Treitschke [0.4] or [0.2] 
Lasker or Bamberger [0.7] have to say about [0.3] legal reform [1.0] and they 
certainly don't see [0.5] the National Liberal Party [0.5] as [0.5] their 
natural party of representation [1.9] the Liberals had [0.2] no grassroots 
support [2.5] Roman Catholics however [0.9] can mobilize [0.3] mass [0.2] 
support [1.3] often anti-national support [3.1] the Catholic Church [0.2] has 
the ability to mobilize [0.6] huge numbers of voters [2.8] and the Liberals [0.
4] are quite [0.2] simply [0.4] terrified [0.4] of doing very badly in the 
elections [0.2] they claim to be the natural representatives [0.4] of the new 
state of the new order [0.7] but 
in fact in a Germany that is still largely particularist [0.9] and which is not 
persuaded by the rhetoric of Prussian domination [0.7] the Liberals [0.7] are 
in a very weak [0.2] position [1.2] in terms of how well they'll do [0.2] in 
elections [2.1] Bismarck [1.0] who wants [0.2] parliamentary [0.3] backing [1.
1] in order to legitimate [0.7] his rather [0.3] authoritarian style of rule [1.
8] is aware [1.2] first and foremost [0.4] that he can use the Kulturkampf he 
can use the persecution of the Catholics [0.3] as a way of keeping the Liberals 
sweet [1.8] and here you get one of the paradoxes of [0.7] the nature of [0.7] 
German history [0.5] and that is that the most marked characteristic [0.9] of 
[0.2] German Liberals is a fundamental illiberalism [2.0] that they are not 
prepared to let people hold [0.3] beliefs freely [1.4] if people have beliefs 
that they don't find congenial [0.3] they're prepared to persecute them [0.5] 
Bismarck realizes that the Liberals see the Catholics as a threat [0.2] that 
the Liberals see the Catholics as obscurantist [0.2] as medievalist as backward 
looking [0.2] and therefore he's prepared to persecute them [0.2] to 
guarantee Liberal support [0.3] in [1.1] Parliament [0.2] and note [0.6] not 
only the Conservatives but the National Liberals and the Progressives [0.2] and 
the Socialists [0.2] all back [0.8] anti-Catholic legislation [2.9] he 
distracts those people from facing other issues [0.3] by [0.2] persecuting 
Catholicism [1.8] but Bismarck is sharper even than that because he realizes [0.
4] that Catholicism [0.8] can be [0.4] a rallying point for discontent [4.0] 
the Zentrum [3.7] is backed by Hanoverian Guelphs by Hanoverians who don't like 
Prussian rule [1.1] it's backed by the newly acquired French population of 
Alsace-Lorraine [1.2] who have been annexed [0.2] in the eighteen-seventy 
seventy-one war [1.4] they're backed by the Poles [0.4] and they're backed [0.
2] by [0.2] Danish [0.2] secessionists [0.3] in other words the [0.2] s-, 
Catholic Centre party [0.3] becomes the rallying point the focus point [0.3] 
for anti-national anti-Prussian sentiment [4.7] Bismarck [0.2] also fears [1.2] 
that [0.8] most of the likely enemies of the new German state [0.5] the 
Habsburg empire [0.6] France [1.4] are actually Catholic powers and that 
Catholicism might become a 
rallying point for anti- [0.6] German [0.2] feeling [4.7] so he aims to [0.2] 
break a potential centre of opposition [2.3] he acts from the belief that it's 
necessary to act [0.3] in a dynamic and aggressive way [3.3] and he also acts 
for one other reason [1.0] Windthorst [0.3] the leader of the Catholic Centre 
Party [0.8] is a man [0.7] who Bismarck [0.6] personally [0.5] hates [1.1] 
Bismarck famously said that he could live for any one of three people [1.1] his 
king [1.0] because he honoured [0.2] and respected [0.4] and worked for him as 
[0.7] his natural ruler [0.9] his wife because he loved her so much [1.2] and 
Ludwig Windthorst because he hated him with such utter passion [0.4] that that 
loathing alone [0.4] would give him enough to live for [1.2] Windthorst is the 
anathema of Bismarck [0.9] Windthorst [0.4] is [0.5] a hunchbacked [1.0] almost 
blind [0.6] intellectual [0.7] Catholic [0.4] anti-nationalist [1.3] Bismarck 
is this man he's this big [0.7] anti-intellectual [0.3] hard-drinking [0.4] 
hard-eating hard-living huge Junker [0.8] they're chalk and cheese they just 
don't get on with one another [0.8] also Windthorst's cousin i believe it is 
and i can't quite 
remember whether it's a cousin or a brother [0.2] is the only person to have 
ever beaten [0.3] Bismarck in a duel [0.5] it just adds a little [0.5] frisson 
to the relationship [1.5] but the personal hostility between the two of them [0.
8] increases [0.6] Bismarck's [0.8] desire [0.3] to persecute the Catholics [3.
5] and yet [0.8] what is the upshot of the persecution of the Catholics [2.2] 
rather than destroying them [0.3] it simply strengthens them [0.7] in the face 
of adversity [0.4] the Catholic vote [0.3] doubles [0.6] in eighteen-seventy-
four [1.4] and by eighteen-eighty-one the Catholics control [0.4] a hundred 
seats in the Reichstag [2.8] for the next fifty years [0.2] they often hold the 
balance of power [0.3] and are involved in almost every single parliamentary 
majority [1.1] they are the last [0.2] German [0.2] party to exist under the 
Third Reich [0.2] except for the Nazis [0.7] they and they they develop a ren-, 
remarkable political durability [2.8] by eighteen-seventy-six [0.8] their two 
chief enemies [0.6] are Bismarck [0.5] and the National Liberals all the 
National Liberals hate [0.2] the Catholic Party [0.3] with the exception of two 
[0.4] 
Lasker [0.3] and Bamberger [0.8] two two of [0.2] the leadership Lasker and 
Bamberger [0.3] can anyone tell me why Lasker and Bamberger alone might have 
been [2.7] less reluctant to persecute the Catholics [3.8] they're both Jews [1.
8] and they realize that persecution of religious minorities is probably not a 
good thing for Jews to advocate [3.5] the irony is that [0.2] in eighteen-
seventy-nine Bismarck suddenly backs down [1.1] why [2.3] it's quite simple [0.
8] Bismarck begins to get fed up with the National Liberals [0.8] they won't 
grant him the money wants he wants [0.3] to carry on bolstering [0.3] the 
Prussian and German armies [2.5] they are free traders [0.4] who won't allow 
him to institute protectionist tariff barriers [1.5] and moreover [0.2] by not 
allowing him to introduce tariff barriers [0.6] they deny him the possibility 
of raising revenue [0.4] from tariff [0.9] s on the borders of Germany [0.3] 
which he can use without parliamentary consent to spend on the army [2.5] his 
fiscal policy coupled with his hostility to the anti-militarism of the National 
Liberals [0.4] means he begins 
to think i want to be shot [0.2] of this political group [2.2] so he has to 
start looking around for another party to back him [0.2] in Parliament [1.1] 
the Conservatives are there [0.7] always more or less loyal because they're 
Junkers but [0.4] not very effectively organized in political terms [0.7] he 
needs to maintain the parliamentary majority [1.1] who's got a quarter of the 
seats [0.4] the Centre Party [1.6] Bismarck's extreme political opportunism [1.
5] means that [0.5] people who have been the vilified enemies of the German 
state [1.5] for the last eight or nine years [0.5] suddenly become his friends 
[1.9] if the Centre Party [0.2] will back his tariff reform [2.0] fine [0.6] 
he'll do a deal with them [1.4] he sacks Falk [0.5] the [0.9] arch anti-
Catholic Minister of Culture [0.3] and religion [2.2] he [0.6] allows exiled 
clergy [0.2] to return [0.7] at a stroke of a pen he gets rid of the May Laws 
[0.4] he does keep civil marriage he does not let the Jesuits back in [2.3] but 
[0.5] married to the fact [0.9] that [0.3] in eighteen-seventy-eight Pius the 
Ninth has [0.2] finally [1.3] and much to the relief of Catholics as well as 
non-Catholics 
died [0.6] and been replaced by the more conciliatory Leo the Thirteenth [1.5] 
he [1.1] suddenly jettisons anti-Catholicism [1.3] and embarks [0.4] on [0.2] a 
road of conciliation [0.5] with [0.2] the Catholic Party [1.1] i think this 
gives a remarkable insight into the operations of Bismarck [0.2] as [0.2] a [1.
0] politician [1.1] Bismarck is a man who has [0.9] broad [1.7] strategic goals 
[0.7] Prussian strength [1.2] German strength [0.9] a basically conservative 
order [2.1] but in terms of short term strategies [0.3] he's prepared [0.4] to 
[0.5] move with the wind [1.7] and it is this readiness [0.3] to [0.6] switch 
his allies [0.9] change his policies [1.0] alter his position [1.7] in order to 
achieve broader g-, goals [0.5] that actually [0.2] lies at the heart [0.2] of 
his political [0.2] durability [1.5] and next week we will [0.3] actually when 
we look at Wilhelmine Germany we'll see very much more how [0.4] Bismarck [0.4] 
manages to retain [0.6] control [0.5] of the new [0.3] Reich [0.2] for so long 
[0.6] and creates a legacy [0.8] that [1.1] causes major problems for 
Wilhelmine Germany [0.3] in the lead-up [0.2] to the First World War [1.0] okay 
remember tomorrow [0.2] there's a change of room [0.8] see you all then